Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It has became apparent to me that my eldar is going to need a serious game plan to take down my friends tau.
His list as far as I know is all the battleforce people he also said he is going to get a riptide and some broadsides thats all I know
(I'm guessing he is just going to sit at the back and shoot me up)
and my list is.
Farseer jet bike singing spear
3x 6 jetbike w/ cannons
Avatar with fast shot
2 wraithlords with spam upgrades (ghostglaives, flamers, BLs and SLs)
Wraithknight
Wave serpent w/scatter laser
5 rangers
6 dire avengers

We are playing 1500 points.

Does anyone have any tactics for me it would be much appreciated
(I don't mind to much if its a really close game but i wouldn't like if i i just lost from turn 1)

sorry to say, that you are going to be depending on your jetbikes and your wraithknight to carry your list. with that said, the ability for your jetbikes to move 48" a turn is going to get them across the kill field before most of the army can target you, and if your opponent is going to use a gun line you can use the models in his army for cover from the rest of the army's shooting.

Actually, you may have some trouble choosing the kind of game to play. If there is a third person who you both trust, ask him or her to lay out the terrain, place objectives, and determine what kind of game to play. a maelstrom game would benefit you most, and force the tau player to actually leave his turtle formation, while an Eternal War mission would likely benefit your opponent more.

The main advantage Tau will have against you is greater range on their weapons. What you don't want to happen is get into a situation where the Tau get an extra turn worth of shooting in against your Eldar force - if you lose a large chunk of your force to an initial alpha strike, it will be difficult to come back. So you'll have to make sure there's enough terrain on the table to shield you from the alpha strike, and then probably go 2nd. If you can get the 1st alpha strike of the game, then you might pull off a victory just through firepower.

A few other thoughts:

Lots of Tau lists have the ability to Ignore Cover, so be careful with your jetbikes and infantry.

It looks your fairly heavy on Wraith constructs - that might work okay (not sure). If the Tau are using a lot of missile pods, then you're probably in good shape - he'll have a hell of a time trying to strip off wounds. If he's using low AP weapons, then maybe try to get them some cover.

Get your wraithknight into close combat against the Riptide if possible. He will kill it.

The Avatar is going to have sort of a tough time running up the field. Maybe use him as a gigantic distraction?

By spam upgrades on your wraithlords do you mean 2 different guns that arent meant to go together, on a already mediocre unit? Because in no way do I find that spam. Combine the 2 wraith lords into a wraith knight and you should have no trouble beating him then.
Also rangers are terrible.
Why 6 dire avengers instead of 5?
Why arent there holo fields and shuiken cannon on the wave serpent?


Fix the list, and youll be fine.

I have had good luck against Tau with my Eldar. I run the suncannon on one of my wraith knights. This is the bane of broadsides existence. Stay at around 48" on deployment and then jump into range and fire away.

I would also remember that Tau shooting is heavily reliant on their marklights, so attack them first. The suncannon can be great for that as well, so target priority becomes the name of the game. Pathfinders go down easy to Wave Serpents (another unit you can utilize the range of vs Tau).

The Tau also lack the mobility and speed to really take those objectives easily, so depending on your style of mission, you can use that to your advantage as well. I would almost certainly split up those jetbikes into 2 units just for more late game scoring/contesting (and reserve them). I know you're probably using them as a body guard for your farseer, but in my experience, the jetbikes are going to deal minimal damage in a game and they are way more important as Obsec scoring units. The farseer can hide with one of them or find a different list to play in.

I would target skyrays/railgun tanks (I forget the name) with the Bright Lances from your wraith lords (personally I'd run a second knight over 2 lords, but I'm trying to not adjust your list too much), maybe even think about putting a second BL on there instead of the SL. With your BS4 and the farseer guiding you should have enough to force it to jink, which can be good enough, as your opponent will have to use his precious marklights to up the BS of the tanks which adds to the load they have to carry in the list.

Target priority is HUGE against Tau. They can befuddle you with their mixture of units and combinations which seem bordering on super powered. If you can take out the marklights and broadsides quickly, the rest should fall into place as you'll be able to out range him or out position him. In my experience a riptide is not to be worried about unless there are enough marklights dedicated to it. (thanks to 7th edition changes). I mean he is a beast, don't get me wrong... but he is a lot more of a distraction/board control unit now than a firepower monster... again, once the marklights are gone (sensing a theme here?)

I would use the Avatar to patrol my backfield (as SMS will rip him to shreds if given the chance) and keep the Riptide from getting line breaker or from getting a good angle on your jetbikes. He is also useful here as if you have fleeing units he can try to give them fearless before they run off the table. This tactic is not always the easiest to get right, but when it happens it is great. Once the major threats have been dealth with he can be used more aggressively. Use the Wraithlords to patrol your flanks, again to keep the riptide kind of caged in. Use the Wraithknight to decoy and pull firepower away from the lords.

ALWAYS be mindful of ranges: Missile sides are 36" on STR 7, 30" on SMS - these are key

So in essence I would make the following changes:**
drop rangers for Suncannon and SL
swap Lords for another knight with Heavy Wraithcannon - or pick up another BL each for them.
split jetbikes into two units.
Drop Avatar for another DAVU wave serpent

**This is not to say your list is bad, actually I quite like it and have run similar lists, but these changes are in the spirit of optimizing. You definitely have the tools to take on Tau, You just have to be cagey and make sure you're pre-measuring everything. The Tau player should only be able to get the shots off you're allowing him to. Concentrate your firepower on a small part of his force and try to eliminate it. Don't be too agressive early, as you'll walk into his wheel-house and get blown to bits. Time your strike and attack with ruthless aggression.

As far as going first or second:

This is a personal playstyle choice. I tend to try and go second to counter deploy, using terrain to block LOS, and cut down on his main fire-lanes. This does open me up to taking a first turn barrage of firepower, but often with good deployment you can mitigate it pretty well. This also puts you in a good position for end of game objective grabbing (again, very dependant on mission type).

Going first afford you the ability to get first blood (usually on pathfinders or mark lights), and really put a thorn in your opponents side. Your list, however, is not an alpha strike firepower list, so your first turn shooting impact will be minimal. You may get first blood and take out some broadsides/marklights, but I don't think it is as important as being able to counter deploy. Again this is very play style dependent.

I hope this helps, I realize I'm rambling a bit and trying to convey a very situational tactic to a very specific question, but without knowing precisely his list, the tarrin and the mission, it's very hard. Eldar are one of the most adaptable races in 40k, so use this to your advantage. Good luck! Keep us posted.

I'm playing against Tau for my first 7th ed game in a couple of weekends.
My list will likely be along these lines:
Farseer on jetbike
Farseer on foot
5x Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent
10x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent
10x Guardians in Wave Serpent
3x Jetbikes
3x Jetbikes
3x War walkers (twin bright lance)
Fire Prism

all tanks with holofields, wave serpents with SL

Opponent will be running mechanised Tau (at least 2 units of FW in devilfish, 2x rail hammerheads, one riptide, broadsides, suits with markerlight drones). It's 1500 pts.

My plan is to embark the footseer with the dragons and try to alpha strike the hammerheads, reserve the jetbikes for late-game objective grabs, and outflank the war walkers again to kill enemy armour. It's very much going to be a game of 'pop the transports' I feel...

 Gangrel767 wrote:
The suncannon can be great for that as well, so target priority becomes the name of the game. Pathfinders go down easy to Wave Serpents (another unit you can utilize the range of vs Tau).

On the subject of Suncannons: I've had good luck running Wraithknights with a Suncannon and one scatter laser. Twinlinking your blast weapon makes it very accurate.

Target priority is HUGE against Tau. They can befuddle you with their mixture of units and combinations which seem bordering on super powered. If you can take out the marklights and broadsides quickly, the rest should fall into place as you'll be able to out range him or out position him. In my experience a riptide is not to be worried about unless there are enough marklights dedicated to it. (thanks to 7th edition changes). I mean he is a beast, don't get me wrong... but he is a lot more of a distraction/board control unit now than a firepower monster... again, once the marklights are gone (sensing a theme here?)

This is great advice. One reason Tau are considered so powerful is that a lot of people don't really understand what their units are capable of, and where their synergies are, and so focus on killing the wrong things in the wrong order. The common error is focusing too much on taking down Riptides in the first couple turns, or wasting S8 shots against broadsides/crisis suits who have drones in front of them, or ignoring pathfinders until midway through the game (after they've already contributed most of their value to the battle).

I would use the Avatar to patrol my backfield (as SMS will rip him to shreds if given the chance) and keep the Riptide from getting line breaker or from getting a good angle on your jetbikes.

That's probably a good use for him. He's pretty good at interdicting crisis suit teams who are deep striking into your back field - he's immune to fusion blasters, and fairly hardy against massed plasma rifle fire. Also, since he has fleet, he can pretty reliably make very long charges (and he easily beats any tau unit in close combat).

ALWAYS be mindful of ranges: Missile sides are 36" on STR 7, 30" on SMS - these are key

Yep. Basic rule of thumb when playing against Tau: if your weapons can reach him, his weapons can almost certainly reach you. Ask him beforehand what sort of weapons he's using on everything - some Tau lists will emphasize rail weapons, with ranges beyond 60". His Riptide will also have a 60" range - basically the entire table. Against these sorts of weapons, your only option is to abuse LOS blocking terrain as much as possible. Fortunately, they have relatively low damage output - wave serpents are not particularly vulnerable against AP1 firepower, and Wraith units are not vulnerable to instant death. Falcon-chassis tanks and War Walkers are only units you have to be super careful with against those sorts of weapons.

you need more waveserpants,they can kill his cheap troops easy,you need to kill any pathfinders,then work from there,first blood is always good against tau

- Thank You everyone for the responses also i forgot about the SC on the wave serpent.

- I called it spam on the wraithlords because i have what i think is tonnes of guns on them also 1 has 2 BL and one has 2 SL.

- I am really just using the rangers to hold an objective do you think it would be better to have like 2 sets of 5 dire avengers or should i just ditched the rangers for upgrades and then split a group of jet bikes for objectives?

- Also what i was thinking for the avatar was if i keeped him in reserve and then when he comes in put him beside the taus gun line, hope he survives al the shooting, then get him into cc cause he is like a boss in cc and i would imagine especially against Tau. Can i do that if i bring him in can i put him anywhere on the board. like I know you have to do that thing where 1,2 is left 3,4 is right and 5,6 is you choose but can i put him anywhere on the board if i get a 5,6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my improved army after your comments.

HQ
Avatar w/fast shot 205
Farseer on Jet Bike w/singing spear 120
Total: 325

Troops
6 Dire Avengers 78
3 Jet Bikes 51
3 Jet Bikes 51
6 Jet Bikes w/cannons 112
6 Jet Bikes w/cannons 112
Total: 404

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent w/ TL scatter lasers, Shuriken Cannon 130
Total: 130

Heavy Support
Wraithknight w/ suncannon and scattershield and scatter laser 300
Wraithlord w/ Bright lance, Bright lance, Flamer, Ghostglaive 165
Wraithlord w/Scatter Laser, Scatter Laser, Flamer, Ghostglaive 165
Total: 630

Total: 1489

with the 10 points left i am thinking to give the avatar monstrous hunter any other thoughts?
still a bit unsure on the suncannon because the stock wraithknight has the distort special rule and it is STR 10.
also still want to keep my jetbikes in groups of 6 but decided to split one for objective capturing.
any other improvements that could be made?

 beastyboy wrote:
Also what i was thinking for the avatar was if i keeped him in reserve and then when he comes in put him beside the taus gun line

How are you going to do that?

 beastyboy wrote:
- Thank You everyone for the responses also i forgot about the SC on the wave serpent.

- I called it spam on the wraithlords because i have what i think is tonnes of guns on them also 1 has 2 BL and one has 2 SL.

- I am really just using the rangers to hold an objective do you think it would be better to have like 2 sets of 5 dire avengers or should i just ditched the rangers for upgrades and then split a group of jet bikes for objectives?

- Also what i was thinking for the avatar was if i keeped him in reserve and then when he comes in put him beside the taus gun line, hope he survives al the shooting, then get him into cc cause he is like a boss in cc and i would imagine especially against Tau. Can i do that if i bring him in can i put him anywhere on the board. like I know you have to do that thing where 1,2 is left 3,4 is right and 5,6 is you choose but can i put him anywhere on the board if i get a 5,6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my improved army after your comments.

HQ
Avatar w/fast shot 205
Farseer on Jet Bike w/singing spear 120
Total: 325

Troops
6 Dire Avengers 78
3 Jet Bikes 51
3 Jet Bikes 51
6 Jet Bikes w/cannons 112
6 Jet Bikes w/cannons 112
Total: 404

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent w/ TL scatter lasers, Shuriken Cannon 130
Total: 130

Heavy Support
Wraithknight w/ suncannon and scattershield and scatter laser 300
Wraithlord w/ Bright lance, Bright lance, Flamer, Ghostglaive 165
Wraithlord w/Scatter Laser, Scatter Laser, Flamer, Ghostglaive 165
Total: 630

Total: 1489

with the 10 points left i am thinking to give the avatar monstrous hunter any other thoughts?
still a bit unsure on the suncannon because the stock wraithknight has the distort special rule and it is STR 10.
also still want to keep my jetbikes in groups of 6 but decided to split one for objective capturing.
any other improvements that could be made?

How are you outflanking with the Avatar? Baring the strategic warlord trait, I don't know how this is done. He would be using standard reserves, and therefor walk onto the table from your board edge, probably very far from the Tau.

That is a lot of jetbikes at 1500. I'd probably drop 1 unit and try to get a DAVU with wave serpent in there. Also 6 jetbikes with 2 cannons is 122 points.

Well, an Eldar jetbike army will eventually have a hard time vs. Tau.
I battled Tau several times in the 6th ed with my Serpent spam list and Tau was always lost. With a Serpent list, you have to take down the marker lights asap (turn 1). Then the Serpents will generally rule.

Target saturation....

Run all the bikes up the table as a group, all at once. Only some of the enemy can shoot at them at once, and some of your bikes should survive. Get the Farseer in there, too
Punch a hole into the squishies, and use the Farseer to hammer the important enemy models or units, like the Pathfinders.

Then, you can walk your Wraiths and Avatar up. Use the Knight at the front, and the Lords behind taking cover from it. Place the Avatar in front or behind, depending on what would be attacking.
You might want a Spiritseer in place of your Farseer, if the Wraiths can benefit from it.

Purge the Eldar for the greater good! Send forth the Mantas and Tetras, Hammerheads and Sky Rays, Sun Sharks and Piranhas, our five hundred and twenty three formations of fire warriors and our five hundred contingents of pathfinders! Drop our one hundred Riptides, our one hundred formations of crisis suits and infiltrate our fifty formations of stealth suits, deploy our twenty commanders, and FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!!

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, an Eldar jetbike army will eventually have a hard time vs. Tau.
I battled Tau several times in the 6th ed with my Serpent spam list and Tau was always lost. With a Serpent list, you have to take down the marker lights asap (turn 1). Then the Serpents will generally rule.

^That.

Yeah never mind about the reserve thing lol
Thank you for tall the responses and tactica this will help a lot to beat down the tau.