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Sso i been thinking as of late i would like to start one of the chaos armies.

It would be mono god for WoC or DoC. Beastmen look fun to paint. well honestly they all look fun to paint. but i want something that plays differently than my other armies which are Dwarfs, Brets, Vampires. just having a hard time deciding. just needing some advice i guess. My buddy keeps trying to talk me out of the WoC cause "they are the space marines of fantasy" and i dunno if thats true or not but i have read some of their fluff and who doesnt like angry vikings fighting in the name of foul gods. Deamons well they are deamons nuff said horrors from beyond. beastmen well mutated men that went primal after messing with warp dust and animals and got pushed all over creation and are quite pissed off has its appeal.

And other than the army book what would be a good start hero wise and the like and as the DoC doesnt has a mono god box anymore (damn you gw) that makes things a little bit harder for them in my opinion. Are the other two boxes worth it? I have read the do you like how this army plays things on here but ui wanted to ask players what they thought. I like to play fluff games and narratives and stuff like that so no worries of me showing up at the any of the major tournaments. i know all of them have theirr challenges and their challenges and rewards.

any way any advice thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated...thanks in advanced.

Bama

Speaking as a Beastmen userof 4 years, I wouldn't recommend the army to another player right now. The army is pigeonholed into extremely narrow builds of units that actually work, and even within this mono-list you will lack any real ability to deal with certain enemies. The army is boring, unrewarding to play, plagued with awful units to trap you, and just isn't really worth the effort. Much less so with Nagash on the horizon since it is looking increasingly unlikely that they will even get a new book, much less one that fixes the same problems the army has had for earlier generations as well.

If you want to play a Mono-God army, it might be a better start to identify which one you like the most, especially if you are interested in Daemons. Not only will it completely change the armies appearance and character, but for Daemons it might as well be a completely new army because they play so differently.
I cannot speak for Warriors, but if you were interested in Daemons:
- Nurgle has the majority-opinion of being 'the best' in that his Daemons are rock-solid, relatively hitty and just being very hard to play wrong. Expect to field lots of Beasts and Drones, making the army deceptively fast if you want it to be.
- Slaanesh is gaining popularity and sometimes even considered better than Nurgle. It is unfortunately much less forgiving and has a few duff units in the Chariots being very lackluster. If you like having M6/7 Core infantry, M10 Fast Cavalry and the single best spell in the game, you can't beat them.
- Tzeentch is extremely limited in that all of its units want to harvest from the same pool of power dice, and it has a chronic lack of actual melee threats. I think the best way would be to minimise your reliance on magic (since you'll be saturated no matter what you do) and spend lots on Soulgrinders, Lords of Change with the Beatstick, and spam plenty of Exalted Flamers.
- Khorne is in a tragic state right now, managing to achieve the weakest Greater, the weakest Core, and Bloodcrushers being naff. All of this is compounded by a non-existant magic phase, being crippled by the most damaging Reign of Chaos rolls, and having zero solutions to the Banner of the World Dragon if you fight any Elves. The only bright spots of the list are Skullcannons, which will get you hated, and Flesh Hounds.

Thats a real shame about the beast men cause the Minotaurs and doom bulls look really awesome and seem like dead hard units.


well the slaaneesh does have its appeal deamon wise...so did khorne...thats really sad that king beat stick is one of the worst gods to use. that really breaks my heart some...


real shame about the exalted chariots being lackluster they are really cool looking models...

if i did a DoC army is would be of slaanesh or nurgle.

Warriors...it would be either Slaanesh Khorne or Nurgle.
yea even warriors i would run mono god cause well i'd think my tribe of northmen dont like the other gods and stuff.

I would go with Daemons as they are honestly the softer of the two chaos armies that dont completely suck (sorry beastmen).

My issue with the WoC book is twofold, one its an incredibly powerful book, packed full of very strong units. It is generally comped very hard and coming up with a soft list with it can be a challenge. It is also one of the most played books in the current tourny setting.

The Daemon book is fun and different, the magic phase Chaos table is a lot of fun for me. The only real gripe I have with the army is that some of the coolest models and units are actually pretty bad on the table. The chariots for the most part just suck (except the Khannons) which is a shame.

(of course im a daemon player so I might be a little Biased)

well good thing i dont go to tourneys so not too worried about that man. i was just looking for something different than my brets dwarfs and vampires thats all and my two lines of thoughts were either runs elves (ick) or run chaos...and i opted chaos. i do have a slaanesh herald running around some where just need a base for her....hmmm i dunno its still in the air. what say you WOC players?

I'd go for WoC, as it seems to be mjst different from your current playstyles.

how much different are they though?

I guess it depends on how you play.

Beastmen have a weak book, centered around the theme of guerilla tactics. Strong characters, big monsters, chariots and chaff.

Daemons also have a fairly week book overall, with some really strong options tossed in. Semi-elite, range from fragile to tough, from slow to very fast. Lots of weird rules, lots of potential builds, and only a few good ones.

Warriors are tough, elite, and reliable. You can easily build an army that moves forward and punches the enemy in the face, pretty much regardless of what's on the other side. But they've got cool monsters, some pretty fast (and often, still very tough) units. Not a lot of trouble-shooting, though.

Looking at the 3 armies you have DoC would probably the most different.
If you went with a single chaos god that could broaden the differences but will also potentially handicap you.
WoC are have plenty of decent builds and are pretty easy to grasp. You could make a fun army with just a few models using Kolek sun Eater and Dragon Ogres..
Really the options are endless
Warpsolution is pretty accurate. I always say play what you want. If you want a tournament style army ask those players who build like that.

If your gaming group enjoys the fluff as well, what we have don in the past which looks great goes with fluff and is loads of fun is mixing Daemons and Warriors. I used to run a unit of Horrors with my Warriors just for fun.

With a few more specifics people could help a bit more.

well, im looking for something with a reasonable model count. That would be interesting to paint. Be versatile....you know can be killy, can do magic, maybe do the shooting thing. The army does not have to be spectacular at any of it but able to do if i want.

Not really into tourny play so again not too worried there.

models that i like in each army:

Beast men:
Minotaurs
Doombulls
Razorgor
Ungors/Beastigors

Daemons:
The Masque
Plague Drones
Fiend of Slaanesh
Skull Crushers
Bloodletters/Daemonettes

WoC:
Slaughter Brute
Marauders
Warshrine
Chosen
Chimera

An army of monsters does have a certain appeal along with loonies chasing it down.

Thrug
double shagoth
6 to 9 dragon ogres
rest trolls could be funnnnnnn

The only Chaos army that I would consider versatile is Daemons, because both Warriors and Beasts lack a shooting phase.

Beastmen have good Movement, Magic and Combat phases. However all of their Magic is based around buffing and hexing, with no real ability to reach out and punch people. Their Shooting phase is non-existant and consists entirely of Shortbows or 275pt Stone Throwers (IE- unusable). The net result is that the army is totally shafted against any kind of flier, being unable to hurt them with either Magic or Shooting and relying on the enemy to make a mistake if you want to get into combat.
Every game is basically the same routine of running upfield (Since Ambush is not worth the paper it was printed on) and then spamming Magic augments into the fights you want to win thanks to an overwhelming Power Dice advantage. The army has no real solutions to fliers, monsters or armour, and is as one-dimensional as armies get.
In terms of your shortlist, Minotaurs are pretty awful since they are 55pts for what is still an Ogre defensively. They want to be a grinding infantry slaughterer, but will bleed far too many points against even basic Core units. The only way they even see the table is as an escort for 3+ Bull characters, at which point your army is dependant on a 1000pt deathstar. It's also worth noting that Minotaur are stuck as Special units now and cannot be the foundation for an army.
Ungor, Razorgor and 'Bulls are all very solid choices though.

On the other side, Daemons are a surprisingly versatile army that can pump it out across all 4 phases. It is very dependant on your choice of God(s) but there is always a unit for the occasion.
Movement is average-to-exceptional depending on the unit. Even the traditionally-slow Nurgle will have large numbers of Drones and Beasts, giving it deceptive speed. And of course we have Slaanesh going around at M10 for everything that isn't a M6/7 Core. Toss in liberal amounts of Fliers, MC, WB and you have an army that is shockingly mobile outside of the Core options.
Magic again, is an option. Nurgle is fairly normal as wizards go, making good use of Death magic and Toughness-debuffs. Slaanesh is a contender for best Lore in the game with buckets of Movement-hexes and Cacophany being an army-clearer all by itself. Tzeentch as a Lore isn't anything special, but it can be taken on your Core units. The only point to make is that Power Dice are finite and so you need to avoid over-investment into this phase. The last thing a Daemon army needs is more randomness.
Just as the army is potentially very fast, the army can also boast a staggeringly efficient shooting phase. Don't look at Flamers though; look at Exalted Flamers, Burning Chariots and Soulgrinders. The army makes heavy use of grapeshot and flame templates and with enough investment, can outshoot even a Dwarf army. It sounds an absurd claim, but 90pt War Machines from the *Hero* slot are an advantage that is just unbelievable. Take 6 of them, why not?
And as for combat, it's Daemons. You can probably work it out for yourself here.

I don't really have any experience with Warriors and so I won't comment beyond the inability to Shoot, unless it's from magic missiles or the Hellcannon.

For WoC not gonna lie the lack of warmachines and shooting does have its appeal (since i do play dwarfs). Sprinkle monsters for flavor and we are off to the races.

Daemons sound the most versatile though for what I'm trying to achieve it sounds like. But the weird rules do throw me off, losing a ward save at random instability ect ect. I know in a way its like crumble like the vc so i know how that works so that doesn't bother me too terribly. oh are the greater daemons worth it? i did read some where that bloodthirsters are kinda crap which is a real shame cause they are supposed to be killing machines and they kinda suck. The other option greater daemon wise is getting a keeper of secrets. All i need for my guo is a base (50 mm right?)

It's a real shame about beastmen cause fluff wise and on paper that sounds really awesome. That is a real shame about the doombull and minos cause again i really dig those models a lot. and again that razorgor looks fun to use as well.

Honestly I would like to have access to the lore of fire. I know i can achieve this with WoC but could DoC or Beastmen achieve this? I know Fire is not the best lore but i think its really neat and well fire who doesn't like setting things on fire?

So i know the WoC box is a decent buy.
Not sure about the DoC or the Beastmen box either what do you guys think about those boxes? Or would i be better off building an army up box by box for DoC same goes with beast men.

In other news i should have about $450 to start this army. So there is that so 50 on the book and 400 on models...


Model wise i have the following just hanging out.
For the daemons just need to change the bases from 40k to fantasy that should be easy enough freezer pop and reglue.

DoC
GUO
Herald of Slaanesh
10 Plague Bearers
command

WOC
Old Warriors i think like ten or twelve of em
command...

 alabamaheretic wrote:
Daemons sound the most versatile though for what I'm trying to achieve it sounds like. But the weird rules do throw me off, losing a ward save at random instability ect ect. I know in a way its like crumble like the vc so i know how that works so that doesn't bother me too terribly. oh are the greater daemons worth it? i did read some where that bloodthirsters are kinda crap which is a real shame cause they are supposed to be killing machines and they kinda suck. The other option greater daemon wise is getting a keeper of secrets. All i need for my guo is a base (50 mm right?)

The reign of comedy chart is certainly a strange beast however I have generally found in the games I've played with my mono Slaaneshi DoC that it screws me and my opponent over pretty much equally and whilst I've yet to lose a game because of it I have won a couple. The best example being turning a Vampire into a Herald turn one and then going Necromancer hunting with said Herald. I'd won the game by turn three, though to give my opponent some credit he still did plenty of damage to my army (Terrorgeist screams hurt) before he crumbled out of existence and kept going to the bitter end.

Daemonic instability is a little less damaging to the army than the normal undead crumble as you still get a leadership test to prevent it happening with the usual modifiers that a regular unit suffers when it loses combat. Though as per usual the daemonic randomness does come into play. A double one brings all your casualties back (yay) but a double six results in the entire unit going pop (boo).

The greater daemons are definitely worth the extra cost over the DPs as they are much more effective for a comparatively small points increase. That's not to say that DPs are useless they're just not as good as they probably should be. Personally I'd say the GUO and KoS are the most effective GDs.

 alabamaheretic wrote:
Honestly I would like to have access to the lore of fire. I know i can achieve this with WoC but could DoC or Beastmen achieve this? I know Fire is not the best lore but i think its really neat and well fire who doesn't like setting things on fire?

Don't know about Beastmen but DoC are very limited in what lores they can take, the choices boil down to the god specific lore and another lore. For Nurgle it's Death, Slaanesh it's Shadow and Tzeentch it's Metal. So yeah no fire. Rather stupidly Nurgle and Slaanesh have the better spells available. Tzeentch's own lore isn't great and Metal is for the most part very situational, at least in my opinion.

 alabamaheretic wrote:
So i know the WoC box is a decent buy.
Not sure about the DoC or the Beastmen box either what do you guys think about those boxes? Or would i be better off building an army up box by box for DoC same goes with beast men.

I'm assuming you're talking about the battalion box here. The beastman one looks pretty good to me but I don't know much about them. The DoC box on the other hand is pretty terrible. The Plague Bearers are arguably the best core choice in the book, personally I prefer Daemonettes but I would say that as a mono Slaanesh player. Seekers and Screamers are pretty good but the Bloodletters are sadly the worst core choice and Nurglings are well Nurglings. The real problem with the box is that you don't get enough of anything, 10 of any core choice isn't enough unless they're chaff, a shooting unit or cavalry. The other issue is the multi-god aspect, you're really asking for trouble from the realm of comedy table by going with all four gods. Personally I'd say that you should find a theme you want to follow and buy individual boxes rather than the battalion box.

 alabamaheretic wrote:
Model wise i have the following just hanging out.
For the daemons just need to change the bases from 40k to fantasy that should be easy enough freezer pop and reglue.

DoC
GUO
Herald of Slaanesh
10 Plague Bearers
command

Slaaneshi Herald aside that's a very good Lord choice and the start of a decent core unit, so not a bad start, more Plague Bearers, some beasts and a Nurgle Herald (or Epidemus is you want to be really nasty) will really get you off to a good start provided mono nurgle is your thing.

If you want a speedier block of infantry to complement the rather slow Plague Bearers the Slaaneshi Herald leading some Daemonettes (say 15-25) can be a surprisingly effective unit for a core choice. Stick the lesser locus of grace on the Herald and you'll never have to worry about test or die spells plus if you give the unit the banner of swiftness you've got yourself some M7 infantry which can definitely take people by surprise.

Sorry if some of my comments are a bit biased towards Slaanesh but I can only really talk about what I know.

Nick no no you're fine man. I'd like input on what everyone plays so the more i know and the better i am educated the better ill be off. so no worries.

Thats kinda disappointing with the limited lores on the DoC but thems the breaks i guess. but i head shadow is really useful and i head death is absolutely terrifying. so there is that.

How do you feel about the Fiends of Slaanesh. its a quirky looking model probably fast and hits like a truck no doubt. But do you use them? or do you prefer seekers?

Again I am sad that bloodletters are a let down.

Hmmm So would a nurgle/slaanesh list be viable? I mean some slow stuff that hits like trucks and some quick stuff to tie things up till the slow stuff reaches it. again i heard that the slow stuff can be fast so a quick army would be interesting to play.

So any WoC plays wanna add their insight to this discussion?

DoC players of other gods maybe?

I'd rank the 4 Gods for DoC as:
1. Nurgle, due to overall resilience, the only truly "solid" Herald choice, solid spell lores, has both anvil units that can grind away plus a pair of really amazing hammer units (Beasts + Drones). GUO with Balesword is pure death to multi-wound models, while the DP is almost playable when marked Nurgle. (though he's still 95% overcosted crap!)

2. Slaanesh, gives you insane movement speed but lacks any kind of real resilience. (you're more 'elf-like' than the majority of the actual freaking elves!) Kipper is easily the best Greater - give it the E.Blade + Lesser and laugh. Two rather godly spell lores, Armour Piercing across all units is great and most everything bar the Chariots and the useless DP are pretty viable.

3. Tzeentch, outside of cookie-cutter builds, most Tzeentchian units are at best overcosted for what you get. LoC is amusingly the worst 'wizard' of the Greaters because his spells lores are mediocre and synergise quite poorly with eachother. But give him the E.Blade and he'll beat the crap out of even a Bloodthirster!
Horrors are okay Core, if you can manipulate their spell generation AND never take them in groups larger than 15. (because they'll grow very quickly, and are saddled with only 1 spell due to being Lv1 wizards)
Screamers are workable, but fail at their intended role of hunting Monstrous stuff (due to being Warbeasts and thus stompable), while the other chaff/chaff killing options are frankly much better than Screamers.
Burning Chariots in pairs are utterly vicious, and Tzeentch marked Grinders w/Baleful Torrent are likewise quite awesome. (and required due to Warpflame!)
Flamers exist solely as 120pts "tax" to give a pair of Exalted Flamers the Skirmisher rule, as they are frankly the absolute worst unit in the entire game...
The biggest problem with Tzeentch is the random factor. You don't have the outright punchy ability of 'normal' Daemon armies, while almost all your damage output is either tied to the Magic phase or else random shooting. One bad turn for Tzeentch is often game-ending because you have very little to fall back on as outside of the LoC/Grinder/charging chariots, nothing really hits harder than a limp noodle.

4. Khorne. Poor, poor Khorne. If it weren't for Skull Cannons and occasionally Ambushing Flesh Hounds you'd never really know that he was even in the book!
The 'Thirster is the weakest Greater Daemon for the simply fact he brings nothing beyond hitting power, which other units provide in spades already. While a Lv4 isn't "required", you are losing out on any real magical offense, whether buffing your own troops/hexing your opponent's, etc...
Bloodletters are plain junk. Daemonettes are killier and both Plaguebearer and even Horrors can grind much more effectively. Overall, there's nothing super threatening about 1 attack S4/T3/5++ infantry who cost the same as a naked Chaos Warrior.
Bloodcrushers are the game's worst Monstrous Cav. Too frail with only a 4+ save and really don't have the ability to crash headlong into the enemy like the better ones can. Added to this that they really require the grossly overcosted Khorne Herald to gain the benefit of rules like Hatred or Frenzy.
Overall, literally anything Khorne can do outside of the Khannons, the other Gods can do equally well and often times, much better AND typically for cheaper too!

 alabamaheretic wrote:
How do you feel about the Fiends of Slaanesh. its a quirky looking model probably fast and hits like a truck no doubt. But do you use them? or do you prefer seekers?

Fiends are pretty awesome particularly if you run a lvl4 KoS with the Lore of Slaanesh. If you get Cacophonic Choir you're looking at ones of the most overpowered combinations in the book. The Cacobomb will not only frequently do hideous numbers of casualties to your opponent but also on the roll of a 6 for each casualty give you a new fiend. Yes really.

I don't run any at the moment partially because I'm playing in an escalation league and couldn't fit them in, plus I'm trying (foolishy perhaps) to figure out a way of running chariots that works, not had much success beyond using as a flanker. So I'm going to be converting some fiends at some point (don't like the official model or it's price). I do like seekers though, for warmachine hunting and chaff clearance they are pretty damn good. Though Furies might frequently do a better job I do love having a 20" march and being able to pretty much guarantee that I'll be in my opponent's deployment zone at the end of turn one. Bare minimum they can be a massive distraction, and holding up a couple of units for a turn or two is often worth the loss of the seekers.

Where at in Bama? I live up by Jacksonville and looking for people to play.

Vash i play in columbus ga as there is no proper game store in phenix city. i am also an hour out from montgomery. not too sure how far that is away from you but that is where i am located..

Wow that fiend KoS combo sounds quite deadly esp with that spell. yea i do like the chariots i think they look quite cool but it seems they are not the best pick in the world.

never looked a furies if i do decide to go with daemons i might have a look at them cause marching that far does have some appeal. So with that it would come down to Furies or Seekers for hunting warmachines and chaff? or do they fulfill different roles?

Experiment thanks for the break down...again that saddens me that the blood god the "king of fighting" got beat with a nerf bat" and is left to the way side. and honestly im less than thrilled with the khanon model it looks kinda silly in my opinion.

So you can mark soul grinders? if im not mistaken from reading the thread. what do people think of slaanesh marked soul grinders? just thinking aloud with this one.

So far It seems DoC has a quite the lead in the runnings...then WoC and well poor beastmen in dead last.

Leaning towards a DoC of slaanesh/nurgle army.
Or a WoC army with some marauders and some other fun things like a chimera and chosen. are chosen any good? model wise i think i could just plonk some big weapons on some normal warriors and paint them differently and call them chosen and save me some money.

Like i said a post or two earlier i'd like to participate in every phase if possible i mean with my dwarfs magic and movement are out. with my brets its the hail mary charge and a little magic and some shooting, vamps is heavy magic...so yea a more rounded force.


My gut is telling me to go with the warriors as they seem a little bit friendlier. as my other armies are not very friendly unless in certain builds (dwarfs gunline, brets are old so not very friendly in the least and vamps well they are just kinda hard to use in genreal)

any way thanks for listening to me ramble. i do look forward to your replies. again making an educated decision is key as i dont wanna blow a bunch of cash and not like the army ya know?

To keep a DoC army on the friendlier end of the spectrum, and keeping the idea of a Nurgle/Slaanesh mix in mind, try something along the lines of;

- Don't ever cast the AoE boosted version of Caco Choir. Unless your opponent is being a donkey-cave such as running a nasty Light Coven build or shoving the BotWD down your throat in a "friendly" game of course!
Likewise, don't take Death on a GUO. Nurgle magic is pretty solid, especially on your other Nurgle troops obviously.

- Don't field Epidemius... except to teach TFG a lesson!

- Don't spam Beasts of Nurgle. They're frankly head and shoulders beyond almost every other unit in the game. Hell, we'd still take them as 'must haves' even if they were 75-85pts a pop, they're really that good!
For a friendly list, I think a good ratio is no more than 2 Beasts per 1000pts. In a 2400pts list for example, you could run 2x2, or 1x1 + 3x1 and they'll make their presence well known. Solo/paired Beasts work great at chaffing up really nasty things/clearing other chaff killers, while a unit of 3-4 is easily capable of working as a hammer to smash face with.
And don't forget about their ability to chump challenge either! It's a handy way to deal with some of the scarier units out there!

- Take only 1 Khannon. People hate these things and will waste little time in whining about how OP they are. Khannons really aren't that bad overall, just ridiculously cheap for what you get & they're especially mean if they get a chance to charge in and support another unit.


Other than that, take what you want!
We've really fallen behind the likes of Elves especially this edition, and when rolling back on our really outrageous stuff you very quickly remove the ability to hobble your way through games on the staple crutches. (ie: Cacobombing, max Beasts, min/maxed Furies & Horrors, max Rares, etc...)
Heck, even Empire can typically do a real number on us when bringing the Light Magic and it's supports.

A Slaanesh heavy army will require a good deal of finesse to succeed as for the most part, it's all T3/5++ which is even squishier than Elves. The more Grinders, (and yes, Slaanesh is the best mark due to AP!), and Nurgle you add the sturdier the army will become, for the drawback of not being quite so blindingly fast.

Is the boosted choir that bad?
same with epidemius?

beasts got it. still kinda partial to the fiends as well...

not to big on the khannon model honestly im sure it has its uses and its ok but i dont think ill field it i might but atm it will not be one of the first things i purchase.

what about the masque? she seems pretty cool. and i do like that model even if i just run her as a basic herald.

this has been quite educational that's for sure.

 alabamaheretic wrote:
Is the boosted choir that bad?
same with epidemius?

beasts got it. still kinda partial to the fiends as well...

not to big on the khannon model honestly im sure it has its uses and its ok but i dont think ill field it i might but atm it will not be one of the first things i purchase.

what about the masque? she seems pretty cool. and i do like that model even if i just run her as a basic herald.

this has been quite educational that's for sure.

1. Boosted Choir can effectively win the game on turn 1.
The ability to chaff things up and control the field is critical in Fantasy. Choir can easily nuke the majority of chaff units because they tend to be super cheap 5-6 man units in general, while sending your Kipper 20" up a flank can catch a unit(s) and nuke war machines.
The real kicker to it though is the "Random Movement D6", as now you have also effectively stopped a unit which takes even a single casualty from doing anything remotely helpful for a turn. Esepcially in a Slaanesh heavy or mono army, against opposing armies that are predominantly only M4 or M5, you effectively 'win' the Movement phase for the rest of game thanks to your at worst M6! (and the majority of a Slaanesh army is M10, so enjoy!)

Honestly Choir shouldn't have had the AoE version as it's simply too powerful, and anytime you simply chuck 6 dice at it, you're running a 26'ish% chance of it going off with IF.

2. Epidemius' rudeness relies entirely on how much Nurgle you have in your army. If you have say only 1 unit of Plaguebearers + a unit of 3 Beasts, he's at most mildly annoying as it'll take a bit for his Tally to grow, and it's only effecting 2 units.
In a Nurgle-centric army however, well, let's just say that no army outside of pure GW wielders are designed to ever fight an entire army of at worst T5/5++ troops! (okay, Nurglings & MoN Furies *only* get T4) The majority of the army though will be T6 or better, and have the ability to smash pretty much everything short of a Light Coven/BotWD Deathstar.
And worst of all, there's the added Portalglyph shenanigans, whereby you can make it 100% impossible to ever kill Epidemius himself.

The way people deal with Epi focused lists is to simply Purplefun them to death, which is no fun for you!

3. The Mask is cool, but she's simply too costly for what she brings... The problem is keeping her alive as she's fragile as hell, yet all her abilities are fairly short ranged. She can be really good, but you really have to build the list around both maximising her abilities AND protecting her. (the latter is way more trouble than it's worth honestly)
On the other hand, you can get some seriously good unit controlling/crippling abilities just out of basic things such as Miasma from lore of shadow, the entire lore of Slaanesh, Treason of Tzeentch spell, Doom & Darkness from lore of death, etc...

She makes for a very cool generic Herald of Slaanesh though, since her model is awesome!

Wow that sounds pretty f-ed up with choir i bet its quite deadly in bigger games

Epidemius seems fun but i wouldn't wanna be tfg cause id hate to be tfg. asgain iof i got him i would most likely run him as a herald on a planiquin. cause that would amuse me,

yea i do like the mask she seems really awesome and stuff. I'm glad we can agree that she'd make an awesome reg herald. I'll keep that in mind if i actually run her as the mask.

I'm not actually keen on running named guys. I know they are good and sometimes they brig a lot to the table but some times its hard for me to justify the points.

SWince it seems that everyone thinks i should go with daemons I think thats what we are going for...we are gonna aim for about 1k.

any advice as to what i should get other than some heralds and some core (two boxes of plague bearers and daemonettes) then sprinkle for taste?

Starting a new army is a massive investment of time and money, and the last thing you want is to have your massive project dictated by someone else. If you have made the decision that you want to start Daemons by yourself, that you are sure this is the army for you, and that you aren't fighting your real dreams of having a WoC army, then go right ahead. The worst possible thing you could do is throw away money on an army you have no passion for simply because a total stranger told you that your opinions are wrong and that you should follow their own tastes.

In your opening post you mentioned that you would like to stick to a single God, so is this still the case? Or are you now more open to the, probably far more sensible, idea of mixing units together and opening the whole book up for play?
For a starting army, the best first steps are always to take your Core and a starting Hero. The Daemons Batallion is unfortunately very badly designed and will not form a good foundation if half the units are drek. I'd suggest looking at some online retailers to get the foundations that you actually need.

- First acquisition should be the Army Book. Don't let other people write your lists for you, have a good look at what units are available and how much they cost.
- While you will probably end up with a Greater Daemon, a Herald or Exalted Flamer is probably the most sensible way to start off since you can actually use it in small games. I strongly suggest that you take a unit of the same God as your general, so that he has somewhere to hide.
- Core units will never accomplish anything unless they are at least 2 boxes big. Even Horrors, often run in 10-man squads, need some extra models to stand in as more are summoned. A unit of 20, or 19 if you fancy converting one into a Herald, will be a good start.
- Core units will not win a game by themselves and so you'll want a Special or Rare unit to deliver some hitting power. It won't necessarily need to be the same God as your Core/General, so take whichever one you fancy. Beasts are always fantastic, but you could look into almost any unit really.

Mozzamanx,

I'm really torn actually cause warriors seem a lot different from what i normally play and daemons well they are even more different. You are correct starting a new army is an investment. I was just trying to get general ideas as where to begin other than the typical army book, hero, core and sprinkles.

wasn't trying to have people write my list for me. I really do like nurlge and slaanesh, i also do like khorne a lot too for the daemons.

for the warriors i'm digging the idea of monsters every where or as many as i can humanly put into a list. seems quite fun. was wondering though with warriors can i run a manitcore with out a lord? cause thats a boss ass model. Or is that just a mount?

I know with warriors people say wither runs them with great weapons or halberds but are extra hand weapons ok? or is it just dependent on what im trying to accomplish? my usual opponents have dark elves, skaven, high elves, vampires, ogres.

another thing i like about the warriors is they have to challenge to prove their worth to the dark gods...i play brets and i play chaos marines in 40k so challenges i know how that works so I'm used to that and that does appeal to me. I was thinking if i did a warriors army using marauders and some chosen and a monster or or two or three...kinda fluffy cause not every one is gonna be decked in that awesome ass armor. and if i get a wizard for the warriors i can use the lore of fire...again more appeal. and i know daemons and woc share the same spell lore when it comes to to wizards (slaanesh, nurgle, tizz) so there is that. I'm really digging the idea of the warriors more than the daemons honestly. partially why the daemons why i was on the fence about the daemons is cause well i have put daemons together and the bits were fiddly and i have painted a few i liked how they came out but wasn't truly feeling it if that makes any sense.

tldr

leaning more to woc with monsters every where.

The number of monstrous models you can put into a Warrior list is, technically, a whole army's worth. If you take Throgg to make your Trolls count as Core.

Otherwise, there are plenty of monster-types that also seriously rock. Chimeras are amazing. Hellcannons (which are Monsters that have a shooting attack, despite the name) are amazing. Trolls are amazing (in units of 18, 9, 6, or even just 1). Dragon Ogres are pretty good, too.

Warpsolution wrote:
The number of monstrous models you can put into a Warrior list is, technically, a whole army's worth. If you take Throgg to make your Trolls count as Core.

Otherwise, there are plenty of monster-types that also seriously rock. Chimeras are amazing. Hellcannons (which are Monsters that have a shooting attack, despite the name) are amazing. Trolls are amazing (in units of 18, 9, 6, or even just 1). Dragon Ogres are pretty good, too.

You can also take Forsaken as an additional Core option for a pure monster mash WoC list as well.

You could have an entire list revolving around:
Lords; Galrauch, Daemon Prince
Heroes: Throgg is a must, gribbly-looking Exalts/Sorcs - Festus is pretty nasty looking I must say!
Core: Trolls, Forsaken
Special: Chimera, Dragon Ogres. Hellflayers & Gorebeast chariots are kinda gribbly too.
Rare: Hellcannon, Slaughterbrute, Vortext Beast, Shaggoth.

Odds are as well that when 9th ed hits next year it'll introduce proper Allies rules, so you could then add-in some Daemonic goodness as well!

See that sounds really awesome.

I was thinking this was what i was thinking of getting before the light of the throgg thing:

Book
Battalion
Sorc
Great Weapons
Warshrine
Chariot
Marauders
Hounds
Warriors

Reasoning
book is needed the off the back
the sorc well i would prefer the one that had a bird head but im not evil baying his ass so i found a good model.. Add the great weapons to my warriors so they can go squish thingsturn the chairiot into a gorebeast. use the left over modle to make a combat lord. extra hounds for more chaff that would give me 20. extra warriors well nuff said. the warshrine well thats just a cool model and i think it would be fun to put together and use and paint. marauders well i like em i know they arent great but they are cool in my book. Flails and a mark and send them on their way and profit. or send them like missile or use em like chaff kinda like cultists in 40k. also thought about using the marauder horse men that seems really cool too.

ill debate the throgg list in my head cause that does sound really fun.

so what i picked does that seem like a plausible list?

back to the manticore mount only or can i run that beastie as just a beastie? I really dig the manticore model and the chimera so those will be included. at some point. Im getting really excited about these warriors a lot more than the daemons thats for sure.

Great weapons on Warriors: Nurgle is the best way to go, there. Just so you know. Halberds can go with anyone.
Sword and shield are the most durable: Tzeentch against shooting, Nurgle in combat.
Extra hand weapons do significantly better against a few specific types of opponents, and much worse against most of them.

There's a thread around here somewhere that broke down all the numbers on it.

The Throgg list is pretty good. Just know that if you run a pure Troll list, it's always a very one-sided fight. For you or them, depending.

Marauder Horsemen are great. Flails make them excellent war machine hunters.

Pretty sure the Manticore is only a mount. But mythological, they're pretty similar to Chimeras. Could do a counts-as.

well for my warriors id like to go mono god...just to remain semi fluffy...so khorne great weapons are not that good?

how are chosen? i like the thought of them i really do...seem kinda tough could be pretty boss.

cause the thought is if i don't do the throgg list is:

marauders every where (i know they aint great but i like em) horsemen and the foot kind and some chosen and some other cool stuff and maybe a block or two of actual warriors...led by by a sorc or a combat lord. i do dig the trolls so maybe some trolls tossed into the mix. so something to that effect, would it be effective unsure would it be fun sounds like it. what do you all think about that idea? i know warriors are a better core but half naked mad men seem like the way to go well i think would be a lot of fun to do any way.

ah cant win em all with the manticore. i do dig that model i might by that on gp just to have an paint...

So plan wise:
1. pick a god...that's the hard part in my opinion.
2. Get book battalion, chariot, sorc, two boxes of marauder horsemen, either great weapons or halberds, and maybe some trolls for fun.
3. profit.