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From what I can gather their basically the spec-ops of the imperial guard which appeals to me however they only have about 5 different units.

Are they fun or good to play? Could you take them as a primary detachment or are they better as allies?

Thanks

Personally I prefer IG to be old school, hordes of infantry and lots of tanks. I never liked the flyers.

MT kind of gives me an excuse to add a aerial aspect to a traditional IG force.

Unfortunately the Militarum Tempestus list is...strikingly underwhelming.

The army relies heavily upon the infantry in all things as the included vehicles are relatively light. Unfortunately said infantry are overgeared for what their statline can support and, more crucially, that AP3 they pay out the nose for is made largely moot by the low strength and cut-down range of their guns.

They've got the nearly the statline as a basic 5pt IG trooper, but with a 4+sv and an AP3 gun with a range that gets cut down to 18" from 24". Thus, against most units, they're not meaningfully harder to kill, break or disable, while the range of their guns means they have to engage their foes exactly where they are easiest to kill, and their guns lack a sufficient rate of fire and/or strength to make that AP3 useful.

The vehicles are another weak point. The only vehicles are the Taurox Prime and the Valkyrie.

The Taurox Prime can carry some decent hitting weaponry, but is so under armored that it won't live too long to make much of it (especially if trying to act as a transport) and starts to get into the same price range as Predators or Leman Russ tanks after you kit its guns and give it any supplemental equipment (like Smoke Launchers).

The Valkyrie meanwhile can carry some OK anti-light infantry weapons, but nothing meaningful with which to consistently engage armor aside from two one-shot S8 missiles.

Ultimately this means that one vehicle is dramatically overcosted and undercapable, while the other lacks any capability to bring heavier weapons.

Thus, in addition to the issues with the infantry above, you must also rely on those same infantry to deal with enemy armor and Monstrous Creatures.

The only reason the list has *any* sort of capability is the inbuilt formations that give a bunch of bonus special rules, but even then don't come anywhere near addressing the crippling structural issues of the list.

The army has tons of mobility, but dramatically lacks both killing and staying power.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Unfortunately the Militarum Tempestus list is...strikingly underwhelming.

The army relies heavily upon the infantry in all things as the included vehicles are relatively light. Unfortunately said infantry are overgeared for what their statline can support and, more crucially, that AP3 they pay out the nose for is made largely moot by the low strength and cut-down range of their guns.

They've got the nearly the statline as a basic 5pt IG trooper, but with a 4+sv and an AP3 gun with a range that gets cut down to 18" from 24". Thus, against most units, they're not meaningfully harder to kill, break or disable, while the range of their guns means they have to engage their foes exactly where they are easiest to kill, and their guns lack a sufficient rate of fire and/or strength to make that AP3 useful.

The vehicles are another weak point. The only vehicles are the Taurox Prime and the Valkyrie.

The Taurox Prime can carry some decent hitting weaponry, but is so under armored that it won't live too long to make much of it (especially if trying to act as a transport) and starts to get into the same price range as Predators or Leman Russ tanks after you kit its guns and give it any supplemental equipment (like Smoke Launchers).

The Valkyrie meanwhile can carry some OK anti-light infantry weapons, but nothing meaningful with which to consistently engage armor aside from two one-shot S8 missiles.

Ultimately this means that one vehicle is dramatically overcosted and undercapable, while the other lacks any capability to bring heavier weapons.

Thus, in addition to the issues with the infantry above, you must also rely on those same infantry to deal with enemy armor and Monstrous Creatures.

The only reason the list has *any* sort of capability is the inbuilt formations that give a bunch of bonus special rules, but even then don't come anywhere near addressing the crippling structural issues of the list.

The army has tons of mobility, but dramatically lacks both killing and staying power.

On the plus side, an allied detachment of special weapons teams deep striking behind enemy tanks rocking 4 meltaguns with orders usually does wonders...at least it hurts me every time my Guard mate pulls them out. They carry more special weapons than my Dark angels, hit with the same accuracy and have monsterhunter/tank hunter to boot! As a heavy armour killing suicide squad they are superb. (or heavy infantry with plasmas instead of the meltas).

So not a good primary detachment, but could make a good allied detachment?

do the have monster/tank hunter? that's pretty handy.

So what would you recommend as a small all purpose allied detachment? A command squad, 2 squads of 5 and a Valkyrie?

Btw I don't know anything about the game mechanics of guard or MT I just like their models and fluff and want to find out more about them

Honestly, if you want a spec-ops, airmobile allied detachment for Guard, take a look at the Elysian D-99 list in the newest Imperial Armour.

They're about half the cost per model, I4, BS and WS4, they all have deep-strike built in, their elite choice squads can take 10 flamers, heavy flamers, grenade launchers, melta guns or plasma guns, and the melta/plasma variant has Monster Hunter, and the whole force has Preferred Enemy against a xeno codex of your choice (Tyranids by default).

Not paying massively inflated prices for a 4+ save and a short range AP3 lasgun does wonders for their cost effectiveness. Stormtrooper pricing has always confused me, they're like a relic from when the game had relatively little AP3 and marines actually meant something, but these days, what doesn't have AP3 or better, or volume of fire/attacks sufficient enough to render armour pointless if it isn't 2+?

I feel the need to point out that the monster/tank hunter comes from an order issued by the Tempestor Prime in a command squad (which would also be the only squad capable of taking 4 meltas/whatever). The Prime can issue an order to his own unit, which is why this combo would really hurt against armour. The only special rules Scions come with base are Deep Strike and Move Through Cover.

They're better as allies than as elites for IG, if you play a bound list.

The HQ tax is either 4 more special weapons and a bunch of different orders or a 25 pts commissar that you can strap to a platoon.

BladeSwinga wrote:
I feel the need to point out that the monster/tank hunter comes from an order issued by the Tempestor Prime in a command squad (which would also be the only squad capable of taking 4 meltas/whatever). The Prime can issue an order to his own unit, which is why this combo would really hurt against armour. The only special rules Scions come with base are Deep Strike and Move Through Cover.

The temepestus order for preferred enemy and twinlinking are amazing on plasma and meltas (i like to think preferred enemy is better for plasma since you are typically going to shoot at things you kill on a 2+ instead of armor) and if you have a nice sized squad of Scions with Hot Shots there is an order that gives sniper, which can mitigate that pesky Str 3

The orders can help, as noted getting Sniper makes the hotshot lasguns scarier, but there aren't enough orders to go around usually and aren't consistent enough to rely on as much as one needs to sadly. The units really should be capable without having to rely on a limited number of short range orders that have not-inconsequential failure rates.

If you're looking for a fast-moving allied detachment, these guys are it (if you're looking to specifically stay Guard oriented). There are other armies that have better survival rates (marines on bikes) but there are very few that look as cool!

Honestly, I was pretty underwhelmed with the book. I wanted to love it, and considering the amazingly cool fluff it comes with I'm not entirely disappointed. The army itself though seems like something that never got out of the development stages; overpriced weapons and attachments and amazingly lacking vehicle access. I think if their weapons were brought more in line with the AM codex, or perhaps whoever designed the army realized that they weren't writing a Marine book, I think the army might do well.

That said, I love the models.

My thoughts on the MT book? Making them a separate book for Stormtroopers with different orders was a waste. They chould combined it with Codex Inquisition and have then as Inq Stormtroopers. That would give Inquisition a solid base of plastic troops to choose from, Inq would bring new, interesting HQ options, and a variety of options in the henchmen, and a decent heavy tank in the Inq Land Raider.

Lots of great useful responses so far.

I'm a Tau player myself and I was looking for something a bit more in your face without being too eccentric, boring or overused to try on the side. I really like the looks and fluff of MT.