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So in the spirit of the new codex and teleporting shenanigans here's a list I'm thinking about trying out soon

Using the GK Strike Force Deatchment

HQ

Librarian - 170 Pts (Lvl 3, combi-melta, Liber Daemonica)

Librarian - 145 Pts (Lvl 3, Combi-melta)

Elites:

Paladins x5 - 353 pts (Halberds x4, Hammer x1, Apothecary, psycannon x2)

Troops

Terminators X5 - 203 Pts (Halberds x4, Hammer x1, Psycannon)

Fast Attack

Interceptors x10 - 264 Pts (Halberd x2, sword x6, incinerator x2)

Heavy Support

Nemesis Dreadknight - 225 Pts (Greatsword, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter)

Nemesis Dreadknight - 225 Pts (Greatsword, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter)

Lord Of War

Draigo - 245 pts

Fortification

Comms Relay - 20 pts

Assuming you can take a comms relay by itself (Stronghold implies you can)

That's pretty much one the lists I'm thinking of running. You can't take the Comms Relay by itself though, it's only an upgrade for other fortifications.

What powers for your Librarians are you looking for?

 Redemption wrote:
That's pretty much one the lists I'm thinking of running. You can't take the Comms Relay by itself though, it's only an upgrade for other fortifications.

Curious why you say it is only an upgrade. I checked the rules and they say "The following list summarises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right.". This to me says you can buy a comms relay on it's own.

That line just says that some battlefield debris may be upgrades and that some battlefield debris might be fortifications in their own right (like the Aegis lines). It doesn't give permission to buy it separately.

Case in point: if you wanted to buy it separately, what would be its points cost? If you're thinking about using the 20 points from the 'Battlements & Battlefield' list, think again. That list is strictly an upgrade list, so you need a fortification to upgrade it with.

And if that's not proof enough, that upgrade list also states:

Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and
rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield
upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with
battlements) or anywhere on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification.

If you're not taking that comm array as an upgrade, how are you fulfilling that rule? You can't place it on the battlements or wholly within 6" of its fortification, as you don't even have a fortification to begin with.

That thing you listed doesn't say anywhere that they HAVE to be upgrades. It just says that a building can buy this seperate thing as an upgrade to another fortress (stopping you from needing more than 1 fortification slot). Let's go over what the lines say:

- It just says it's a single piece of battlefield debris: check... quite a few of those things are seperate models.

- It says you need to check the next page to check the rules: when you do, it'll read: "The following list summarises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right."

- Then it says that each fortification can buy one as an upgrade (note that it never says: you can ONLY GET THESE if you upgrade a fortification), meaning it's still only 1 fort slot.

- It then goes to explain that you can put them on battlements, or grouped up within 6" if bought as an upgrade. Pretty damn obvious, because it would be 1 fort, despite it being more than 1 model in some cases.




So it really isn't that hard. There's a point list for upgrades. On the next page, there's a rule that it's perfectly acceptable to buy an upgrade as a stand alone fortification. So if you are still going "how much would it cost?", the answer is pretty straight forward.

In that rules list of battlefield debris, everything has a point cost associated in the previous list EXCEPT random rubble. So you can buy anything except random crap. But barricades, abandoned gun emplacements, tanglewire, extra ammo storages, comms relays,... are all possible to bring along as an army. And damn well they should. What army in their right mind wouldn't bring some communication equipment, extra ammo, etc because they haven't quite yet build a fortress around it.

Read the fluff on gun emplacement... it even hints at the narrative that you can just "find a gun that still works".

Though abandoned, this gun battery still functions.

How silly would that line be if you could only bring it as your own fortification. "Hey guys, we dropped in this ADL to support you... thank god the gun on it still works, right?"

 Redemption wrote:
That's pretty much one the lists I'm thinking of running. You can't take the Comms Relay by itself though, it's only an upgrade for other fortifications.

I agree with Elmir's assessment and the wording of Stronghold Assault that it can be taken as a fortification on its own.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What powers for your Librarians are you looking for?

The one with the draigo wing will roll on telepathy

The 2nd one, havent decided, maybe sanct for another gate, maybe vortex or cleansing flame.

Or Divination

Or both rolling on Telepathy for invisibility fishing

The only time the cost for a coms relay is listed, is as an upgrade to an existing Fortification.

There is no option anywhere in Stronghold for it to be taken on it's own.

 grendel083 wrote:
The only time the cost for a coms relay is listed, is as an upgrade to an existing Fortification.

There is no option anywhere in Stronghold for it to be taken on it's own.

Its some of that vague wording again, the line says they can be "Purchased as an upgrade to an existing fortification, or as a fortification in their own right"

Its honestly not make or break in this list, techincally only the terminator squad will be deep striking, everyone else is shunting, or the draigoball will be using gate

Should they not be allowed, Ill put another hammer with the Paladins, a melta bomb on the interceptor justicar and a melta bomb on the terminator justicar for the 20 points

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
The only time the cost for a coms relay is listed, is as an upgrade to an existing Fortification.

There is no option anywhere in Stronghold for it to be taken on it's own.

Its some of that vague wording again, the line says they can be "Purchased as an upgrade to an existing fortification, or as a fortification in their own right"

Its honestly not make or break in this list, techincally only the terminator squad will be deep striking, everyone else is shunting, or the draigoball will be using gate

That's only part of the quote.

If you only quote part of a rule, then yes, it would seem to say that. But if you look at the full rule...

The following list summarises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right.

This does not say that everything on the list can be taken as a Fortification or an Upgrade. It saying that for the Fortifications and upgrades found in the book for "Battlefied debris", their rules are found here.

It a summary of rules, nothing more.

Hmm I'll have to look at it again when I get home.

Again not much of a deal for this list

I believe you're mixing things up:

 Elmir wrote:
There's a point list for upgrades

Correct.

 Elmir wrote:
On the next page, there's a rule that it's perfectly acceptable to buy an upgrade as a stand alone fortification.

Incorrect. Even if you somehow read that bit is a permissive rule that you can buy a piece of battlefield debris as a standalone fortification (which IMHO, it doesn't), it certainly doesn't say anything even in the vicinity that you can buy an upgrade as a standalone item. So my point stands: how much would it cost?

 Elmir wrote:
That thing you listed doesn't say anywhere that they HAVE to be upgrades.

It's on a page called 'Fortification Upgrades'. How much more verbatim do you want to get that they are upgrades? More importantly, you never have permission to treat them as anything other than upgrades. At the top of the page it very specifically says you have to have permission on the a fortification's datasheet entry to even use anything on that list. Where's the comm-relay's fortification datasheet entry?

 Elmir wrote:
It just says that a building can buy this seperate thing as an upgrade to another fortress (stopping you from needing more than 1 fortification slot).

Yes, my words exactly. It is an upgrade to another fortification, which requires you to actually take such a fortification. By taking it as a stand alone item, you're already breaking this rule.

 Elmir wrote:
Then it says that each fortification can buy one as an upgrade (note that it never says: you can ONLY GET THESE if you upgrade a fortification), meaning it's still only 1 fort slot.

It also doesn't state you can't take them as anything other than an upgrade. It's a permissive ruleset - if it doesn't state you can do something, you usually can't.

 Elmir wrote:
It then goes to explain that you can put them on battlements, or grouped up within 6" if bought as an upgrade. Pretty damn obvious, because it would be 1 fort, despite it being more than 1 model in some cases.

No, it doesn't say that. It says you need to place the upgrade within 6" of the fortification you bought it for. Which of course, requires you to actually have said fortification to buy the upgrade for.


But alas, this is more the subject for a YMDC thread, my apologies for taking your thread off-topic Wren.

Sounds like something that needs a ymdc.

20 and 70 points for ADL with comms is a substantial point jump

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Sounds like something that needs a ymdc.

20 and 70 points for ADL with comms is a substantial point jump

The comms relay is just an upgrade for an ADL, not more.
It cannot be purchased alone.

Welp ill put the 20 points somewhere else

[quote=But alas, this is more the subject for a YMDC thread, my apologies for taking your thread off-topic Wren.