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I want to build a TAC list but don't want to skew for AV13/14 spam. I do want to be able to handle it to some extent without gimping the rest of my army. I generally play Tau CAD1 + Enclave CAD2. So far my anti-AV has been dual Fusion single Crisis Suits deep striking turn 2 and on. But that's not always reliable... with an in-surge of AV12/13/14 vehicles with their increased durability in 7th, I'm having a hard time tweaking my list to be able to handle those higher AVs en masse. Not to mention the Imperial Knight formation...


What is the most effective units/ models Tau has at handling high AV13/14? (Forgeworld is allowed locally at all the tournaments so those models are options too)

firewarriors with EMP grenades?
it allows them to be dual role. if your opponent brings hordes, you can use your pulse rifles. If your opponent brings vehicles, then you can kill them via HP stripping.

If you have the models, run the Firebase Support Cadre. Tank hunter on HYMP broadsides and a Burstide with ECPA is the bane of AV13. The jump to AV14, however, is a huge difference. Novacharged Burstides are an option, and like you said dual fusions on crisis suits.

Another option for AV14 is Longstrike's hammerhead. I don't run it, but it is an option.

Im having the same problem (I also run farsight+tau double cad). My solution at the moment is buffmander with 2 fusion suits with target lock and using tetras to provide them with precision deepstrike. Working well sofar. Deepstrike into perfect range and blast away with a super buffed up squad.

best i find to deal with the pescy landraiders is charge with riptide and use the smash! not as relaible in 7th but still makes them go away (and if you want to make make sure give them TL fusion!)

Fusion suits are probably the #1 independant anti tank team in the game.

Other than that, you got railgun hammerheads, EMP for your troopers or trying to get flank/rear shots, who are usually more fragile.

Myeh... charging with a RipTide against a Imperial Knight is going to probably not end well. For 1x S10 AP2 smash attack...

Anyways, the "problem" unit is the Imperial Knight Formation with 3x IK with rerollable Invuls... it just seems near impossible for us to crack without taking a ridiculous amount of dual Fusion Blaster DS Crisis Suits >__<

I'm pretty sure that's true of any army. Some have cheaper melta options, but probably don't field them all unless they expect 3 knights.

Dual Fusion Suits are amazing. I've got two units of two Crisis with dual Fusions. I've also got TLFBs on all three of my Riptides, RippleFire Fuion does the Trick, charging and Smashing can be effective, but must be done carefully, and not against any Walker with more than 1HP left.

For AV13, I have a BuffCommander, 3xDual Missiple Pods, and Commander with Dual Missile Pods that makes short work of AV13 and anything less and can take out two AV12 targets in one turn. The whole unit deals 4HP vs AV13 in one turn with no cover save.

At this point the Hammerhead is pretty pointless. A single shot just doesn't deal with vehicles anymore with the changes to the damage table. The FBSC is a pretty solid option, Missile Pods are good at taking out AV13, and Tankhunting Ripple Fired Fusion dill do a number on AV14.

About Knights and cracking the Adamantine Lance. Simple answer is, you don't unless you have to. IKs aren't very points efficient shooting, actually less efficient than two IA Riptides. Cracking the Lance is extremely difficult and can only be accomplished by attacking from multiple vectors, preferably with Ignores cover as often one Knight will grant cover to the other. For instance, if I have to crack the Lance, I'll ignore it Turn 1, and Turn two one or both of my Dual Fusion Crisis will drop, I'll position the first model baretly within one arc, and on a hit will place the 2nd model in another Arc, allowing me to at least fire half the Melta in an unsafe arc. If they scatter, the 2nd fusion suits will go in a different arc of the Same Knight, preferably the middle one. All the while I get to pound an unshielded arc with my Riptides and Buffcommander unit. If done right, you can almost guarantee you'll hit arcs, especially if the Fusion hit and are able to cross their targets, its better to not be in Melta range than it is to fire against a Lance's Rerollable Shield.


But, the far better option is force the Lance to break apart, or limit it to a shooting platform. Use terrain, they only move 3d6' take the highest through DT. You can bait them with a charge to break formation and enter terrain, otherwise on an adequate board, the lance formation is very difficult to maneuver. The'll often be giving you cover as they maneuver around from themselves. Make sure you force them to use the proper rules for firing a SHW, a total 45 degree horizontal and vertical arc, they cannot target units outside of this. If you limit thier ability to maneuver, and use cover, IKs shooting is pretty lackluster over the course of anything that is not a KP mission. If you let an IK player misplay thier movement and shooting Rules Knights are pretty ridiculous, if you remember their limitations they can be dealt with. I know I can put one down a turn with firepower to spare. In the past, ignore Turn 1, Hammer Turn 2 is a pretty good strategy.

Just spread out, outmaneuver them, and make sure you can put the majority of your firepower in unshielded arcs. And when you do take one out, hope for that amazing D Strength Scatter, and average scatter his a neighboring Knight with Strength D and has the chance to one shot another Knight. If you take out the middle knight, they lose their bonuses and have to reposition if they want them back.

AFAIK the lance CANT brake apart, as its an armored spearhead formation, and as such its a squad.

So spread out and prevent multi-assaults

 BoomWolf wrote:
AFAIK the lance CANT brake apart, as its an armored spearhead formation, and as such its a squad.

So spread out and prevent multi-assaults

Can you please quote a rule that states its and Armored Spearhead Formation and that IKs selected from an Adamantine Lance Formation are a Squadron.

To my knowledge, no such rules exist. They are still separate IKs, their bonus is if they are within 3" of each other.

In the apoc rules where they cover "armored spearheads" there are some common rules, like the fact they make up squads and that they can be in one of several "stances" for extra bonuses like PE/TH

And I'm PRETTY sure its an armored spearhead, need to see the formation symbol to make sure though.

 carldooley wrote:
firewarriors with EMP grenades?
it allows them to be dual role. if your opponent brings hordes, you can use your pulse rifles. If your opponent brings vehicles, then you can kill them via HP stripping.

One grenade per unit per phase....

Per SHOOTING phase, everyone can use them in assault.

Though if you got into assault with a walker, you might be in trouble anyway. (my record is 2 hp off a knight with a minimal FW team.)

Sensor Towers conferring TL to Railgun HHs?

The Firebase Support Cadre is a really good choice as with Tank Hunter combined with Markerlights makes it very nasty, especially against Space Marines.

 BoomWolf wrote:
In the apoc rules where they cover "armored spearheads" there are some common rules, like the fact they make up squads and that they can be in one of several "stances" for extra bonuses like PE/TH

And I'm PRETTY sure its an armored spearhead, need to see the formation symbol to make sure though.

Well the Adamantine Lance formation is from the Santic Reach Red Waagh! And has absolutely nothing to do with apocalypse as it's not an Apocalypse formation, just as the FBSC is not.

The Adamantine Lance is NOT an apocalypse formation, unles s some rule or piece of information that I've missed.

Kind of a noob question (totally spaced) but the Fire Support Cadre Formations is not an Apocalypse Formation correct? Meaning it can be run in standard 40k games?

 gmaleron wrote:
Kind of a noob question (totally spaced) but the Fire Support Cadre Formations is not an Apocalypse Formation correct? Meaning it can be run in standard 40k games?

Yep,absolutely. Mad is the Adamantine Lance. And Tyranid Living Artilery... And Skyblight etc.

The only things that are Apocalypse only are labeled as such.

 Zagman wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
In the apoc rules where they cover "armored spearheads" there are some common rules, like the fact they make up squads and that they can be in one of several "stances" for extra bonuses like PE/TH

And I'm PRETTY sure its an armored spearhead, need to see the formation symbol to make sure though.

Well the Adamantine Lance formation is from the Santic Reach Red Waagh! And has absolutely nothing to do with apocalypse as it's not an Apocalypse formation, just as the FBSC is not.

The Adamantine Lance is NOT an apocalypse formation, unles s some rule or piece of information that I've missed.

Does not change the fact it works by formation RULES, that are presented in apocalypse and are not unique to it.

The question is, is it designated as a "Armored Spearhead" or not. and I cant tell without seeing the actual page.

 BoomWolf wrote:

The question is, is it designated as a "Armored Spearhead" or not. and I cant tell without seeing the actual page.

I believe what carldooley said.

Still, as a fact there are walker spearheads. they just cant use flat-out rules as they cannot flat out.

if anyone has the book and can send me a pic of the page I can tell one why or another (full page)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Still, as a fact there are walker spearheads. they just cant use flat-out rules as they cannot flat out.

if anyone has the book and can send me a pic of the page I can tell one why or another (full page)

And there is absolutely no mention of Apocalypse on their page, nor armored spearhead.

So, you don't have the rules, and are making stuff up about them having to be in a Squadron? Its best, to have or at least have read the relevant rules, before making sweeping declarations.

I said that AFAIK (as far as i know) they are an armored spearhead, as that's what I've been told about them in previous discussions.
If they are, then what i said is correct. but all is under the assumption that they ARE, just like I said to begin with.

Now, without anyone actually showing me the page, I cant locate if the armored spearhead icon is present or not.

broadsides, hammerheads, and firewarriors with emp granades glancing on a 2+ pen on 6+.

The chance of actually getting a FW unit to charge something like an Imperial Knight... if it happens it'll be awesome, but not that reliable.

Hammerheads... 1 shot... need 4's to glance, 5's to pen. Still very very low % at success.

I think the best bet is going to be DS Crisis Suit with Dual Fusion Blasters... myeh... It's what I've been doing. Just wanted to see if there is a better way but it doesn't look like it. Not just better but more efficient and effective too.

Piranhas with Fusion Blasters are pretty efficient anti-AV.

They are not terribly popular, but might be worth exploring if you are unhappy with your current options or you want to get a little extra out of your Fast Attack slot.

Tau allied with Eldar works as well. Rending broadsides/burstides via misfortune is really, really good.

wighti wrote:
Tau allied with Eldar works as well. Rending broadsides/burstides via misfortune is really, really good.

Huh? Misfortune gives rending ATTACKS, not shooting.

Also, how would you even buff Tau in 7th, when they aren't battle brothers?