Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I just started playing recently and I've got about 4k of points in Space Marines because I love the Salamanders to death. They get gak on by GW all the time but they are the little burners that could.

That being said, I have a friend who has way more money than me invested and has a Tau list that I just CANNOT kill. Keep in mind we have only played a handful of games but he has just the most obscene luck. First of all, we play on a small table. About 60 inches long and wide. We've tried objective and non-objective but the outcome is the same. I've tried adding terrain but we simply couldn't fit enough to cut off sight and allow any maneuverability.

Our first game I tried fielding just random stuff to try and get a feel for my army.

(these are rough lists, I have the actual lists around but for the most part it wont make much difference, you should be able to get the general idea)

1500 pts Game 1: I fielded
2 tac squads with rocket launchers and flamers, rhinos for portable cover
1 sternguard in drop pod
1 thunderfire cannon
1 master of the forge
1 terminator chaplain with command squad
1 whirlwind

This list got absolutely vaporized. Didn't even kill a squad, and only BARELY killed a handful of drones.

800 pts Game 2: I fielded
5 Deepstriking Terminators + my Terminator Chaplain
2 tac squads
1 sniper squad


1250 Game 3:
2 Whirlwinds
3 Tac Squads(1 Rocket Launcher); 3 Razorbacks (Heavy Bolter)
1 Stormraven (Plasma Cannons)
1 Chapter Master
1 Master of the Forge (With Conversion Beamer)
1 Dreanought (Plasma Cannon, Autocannon) in a Drop Pod


The last game I got closer but I couldn't get through his meatier damage dealiers which are really all I have to kill.

He will generally field (with some very small variations):

3 Broadsides with Target Lock (with 2 Missile Drones each)
2 Squads of Fireblades approx 30 with a Cadre Fireblade (Using the rapid firing pulse weapons)

1 Hammerhead with missile pod upgrade

1 Squad of Pathfinders with 3 Rail Rifles

1 Commander (With no guns, only Drones, Drone Controller, and support systems)
2 Bodyguards with 1 or 2 ranged weapons and Target Lock


Now, obviously part of our problem is the table size but he can't go out all the time so we just play with what we have. My 'template' list seemed to work decently and the Master Crafted was really nice to have. But with ALL OF MY GUN at his Broadsides I could only BARELY kill the drones.In 5 turns I managed to kill 1 of the Broadsides. And that was a MASSIVE improvement. It took 2 razorbacks and 2 tac squads firing all their shots for 2 turns just to kill one squad of pathfinders.
Now, I know I have had garbage luck but surely there is SOMETHING I can field to make it a fair fight?

Essentially I need a way of killing the Broadsides, the rest is much less of a threat. But with 6 drones in his 3 broadsides, they have 4 wounds each essentially.

The only thing I can't field is bikes and centurions. Other than that, I am eager for help.

You need drop pods badly. Your issue seems to be range, a pod list would help with that. If you can get some tac marines with power fists in CC, the Broadsides will go down.

Just wait til he picks up a Riptide, though.

My issue has not been being IN range my issue has been being OUT of range. (Meaning that all my 'big boom' stuff has always been in range but he can soak the hits and broadside everything to death. )And my tac marines are never getting that close. It just won't happen. I might be able to drop a sternguard squad or deep strike some termies though.

Rifle sides or salvosides? Either way, have you considered more rhinos? Or any rhinos? They can feth a man up. Move fast, go all out. 12+1d6" will get you most of the way across no mans land.

Actually... land raider. Get the brick and stick a squad of tacticals in it. You just need to close distance with the sides, and they should not be able to do much against a squad of tacticals riding in an av14 box... unless they are rail sides. Then they will probably take of a wound... each round. You can get there faster.

AkiraSovu wrote:
My issue has not been being IN range my issue has been being OUT of range. (Meaning that all my 'big boom' stuff has always been in range but he can soak the hits and broadside everything to death. )And my tac marines are never getting that close. It just won't happen. I might be able to drop a sternguard squad or deep strike some termies though.

I thought the nickname termies was used for termagants?

lliu wrote:

AkiraSovu wrote:
My issue has not been being IN range my issue has been being OUT of range. (Meaning that all my 'big boom' stuff has always been in range but he can soak the hits and broadside everything to death. )And my tac marines are never getting that close. It just won't happen. I might be able to drop a sternguard squad or deep strike some termies though.

I thought the nickname termies was used for termagants?

100% of the time I've heard it has been in reference to terminators.

I've heard it both ways. what matters is context. a funny tactic that I ran across recently is running an unbound list of nothing but sternguard with pedro kantor. Your opponent is running unbound, this allows you a counter while maintaining OS.

The key with Tau is target priority. Tau have a lot of durable fire power units: Broadsides, Riptides, even Crisis Suits. What they lack however, is durable troops. Outside of Devilfish Firewarriors are fairly squishy, 4+ armor with T3 will only get you so far, and anything AP4 and/or with ignores cover will make them cry. When playing objective missions, your best bet is to focus on the troops. Well, pound the weak marker light units, such as Pathfinders, and then the troops. Trying to kill the super durable units plays more to their strengths than yours. Tau scoring units are generally more immobile as well. Try to position yourself for the most possible board control the first few turns. Btw, are you playing Malestrom (Malestream?) missions or eternal war. Eternal war missions typically favor Tau more as they're more point and click type games.

What also may help is a little more focus on your lists. For example, the Dreadnought in the last list is a little jumbled up. Generally, if you're going to drop pod a Dreadnought make use of the weapons that pin-point dropping gives you, such as dual heavy flamers (which unprotected Firewarriors hate) or a melta and flamer. Melta allows you to hopefully to pop a vehicle, and if you survive the following shooting phase (Dreads usually don't), you can then charge/flame the next vulnerable units.

If you're playing Salamanders, pack on flamers and melta as much as possible - Bring Vulkan for the latter benefit though. Plus, remember the master-crafted thing on the sergeant also applies to combi-weapons. Even if you only take a flamer on the tactical squad, it's possible to get a master-crafted combi-plasma or melta.

Salamanders also do benefit pretty heavily from Drop Pods since most of their chapter tactics make use of short range weaponry. If you don't have a ton of drop pods, then pack what you can into the pods you have, and throw everything else into a rhino.

Also, what is the techmarine doing? That's a decent amount of points that I don't see really providing a huge benefit for your army.

I hope some of that helps.

If you try to foot slog SM toward Tau you will never win, hands down. As SM you have to go biker spam or bring pods.

"keep in mind i have only played a handful of games" thats your issue more than anything else. Tau are one of the harder races to beat if you dont know what youre doing, target priority is one of the bigger importances facing Tau.

If it has markerlights, kill it. If you can paste it, shoot it (lascannons, krak missiles, etc S8+ weapons are the bane of suits outside the riptide)

Your lists seem kinda random to me. Marine tactics are kinda vague to me so i kinda cant help in that regard, but i dont see a general tactic in those lists...just random units. You'll get better in time, believe it or not i lost literally my first 35-40 games before i finally won one lol.

Honestly, heavy bolters have served me amazingly against fire warriors. Set up 33" or so away front their cover. They can either step forward and be in the open or get out ranged. Broadsides are too cheap for how good they are, but if you can kill their drones the put a couple S8 hits into them they crumple. The heavy bolters can also be used to kill those drones. Or if they put the drones in front, drop pod sterguard with melta will just hit the sides directly.

The biggest problem I see is your list. It's all over the place. That Tau list should be fairly easy to beat with space marines if you take melta/pod spam or biker spam. It's not exactly a tournament caliber tau list, it doesn't even include their best unit that gives people the most trouble. Bike or pod up, take out markers, then broadsides. From there you should have an easy time taking objectives and clearing the board.

The general idea behind my last list was to be able to throw down with enough heavy artillery to take out the drones and broadsides without worrying about firewarriors. Because essentially the fire warriors are only a problem within 30". If I am getting caught up in them I am doing it wrong because they are scary sure but he all but refuses to move them so I could easily sit back and rocket them to death once the broadsides are down.

The Dreadnought should have had a melta in retrospect. But I thought with combined fire the ordnance I had would be able to take the broadsides in the first two turns.


For reference, yes, the broadsides are packing rail guns.

The sole reason I didn't bring meltas or lasguns was range. Plasma seemed to be more value for the range we were fighting at and it didn't occur to me to drop in melta packing sternguard or dreadnoughts. (Plus sternguard are pretty expensive point-wise to be sacrificial.)

I'll buy 2-3 more pods in the next week or so, but it does put me in the position of going all-in with the meltas essentially.

As for the Master of the Forge, his main purpose was to be a hard to kill bastard that had the potential to delete his best squads. The previous games he has been a superhero not because of the damage he dishes out but because of the shots that have been wasted trying to kill him. A lot of my list was meant to be entirely sacrifical past the first turn. If I managed to save a whirlwind, my chapter master, and another unit after killing his broadsides and hammerhead, I could have mopped up the fire warriors pretty easily (again because they basically stand still in a nice little line.) On that note, given how he fielded them I am thinking my thunderfire or a predator would be better than so many razorbacks/whirlwinds.



On a side note - I REALLY don't want to field bikes for two reasons. 1. Too meta for my liking. 2. Against fluff.
I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about having to field drop pods to take out his army but I suppose it's not entirely unreasonable given the short range we are fighting at.

Alright I have added in a rough idea for a list for the next time I play.

The plan with this list is to split into combat squads and drop in lots and lots of melta/combi melta while the other half of the combat squad deploys at las range. The thunderfire is there just to drop some templates on firewarriors for cheap. This list is more-all in than I like but it should get me the power I have been lacking. Termies are in there because they are quite shooty and have powerfists that will crumple...anything.

I always save the Riptides for last. Save the tankiest stuff till the end, everything is very shooty and its about knocking out firepower, yes Markerlights count as firepower in fact they should be your number one target.

First things first, your new list has 4 pods. Only ever run pods in odd numbers. As half rounded up drops in first turn.

Secondly, not sure why you are fielding lascannon's in your tac squads, assuming you will be combat squadding them and only dropping the 5 guys with the melta-gun on first turn. I suggest losing the lascannon and leaving combi-melta on your sergeant and melta-gunner on those tac squads.

Also not really sure what the heavy bolter is doing in the sternguard squad. The rest of your squad wants to be moving after turn 1 as the weapons have relatively short range and yet you are fielding a heavy weapon forcing you to stand still or snap shoot.

Your dreadnought has range for virtually your whole board so you can lose that drop pod and start him on the board, or go for a flamer dreadnought and take a pod.

Your devestator squad has mixed targets, you have a bolter who wants to hit his troops and lascannons who want to hit his broadsides and tank. Try keep devestators equipped for one role only mate.

Terminators aren't particularly competitive but I love them so won't ask you to take those out. Just don't expect them to earn their points back. The railsides will make short work of those.

Thunderfire cannons will make those pathfinders and fire warriors cry, if possible take two.

Hope the above helps...

Woops. Only supposed to be 3. 2 for the 10 man sternguard and 1 for two 5-man tac combat squads with 2 meltas and 2 combi meltas.
Keep in mind all the rest of the sternguard is packing combimeltas, so I am inclined to leave the heavy bolter so they can simply wheel and shoot. The las cannons on the tac squads are simply another thing I can sit back and fire high damage shots at him with since I can get 2 5-man tac combat squads with them and it makes up for only being able to take 4 in a devastator squad. I agree the dreadnough could probably take a flamer but I am hesitant to make him have only the one job of taking out the fire warriors (though to be honest they can't kill him so he's perfect for it.).
The only reason the heavy bolter is there is for after the broadsides die. Should I bring plasma or something that can do both afterwards instead?

The terminators are there solely because they are a threat 100% of the time. At the worst they're a hard to kill sacrificial unit. At best they get in range and decimate. I like to deploy them with a terminator chaplain whenever possible.

Id be tempted to commit all in to assault/melta
3 pods (1 empty, 2 turn 1)
landraider with tac squad and chapter master
3 x 1 landspeeder with multimelta
(under no circumstances should you squadron these)
3 thunderfire cannons.

how many points is that. All those units are super effective at what they do and should only ever be shooting at their optimal targets.

MSU with very narrow focus for every unit e.g. Turbo boost up and then multi melta something if your alive .

While I do like the land speeders I can simply get more shots offwith a squad in a drop pod. Especially sternguard.

AkiraSovu wrote:
While I do like the land speeders I can simply get more shots offwith a squad in a drop pod. Especially sternguard.

Totally true, I only threw them in the mix because I assumed diminishing returns on pods (having to buy 1 empty for every 1 full) but this might not be the case, I don't play SM myself I just usually don't face more than a couple (3 with 1 empty) of pods.

I think OP most needs to understand the benefit of kitting out a unit to do one thing super well at the cheapest possible price (for that unit) and then have them do nothing but that all game. That is why everyone is saying things like 'dont buy a heavy bolter on a sternguard squad' - it doesn't help them blow up tanks and 2+ units, better to stick to nothing but maxing meltas & combi meltas (and maybe a power fist). Likewise a squad with 4 lascannons will be twice as good at blowing up vehicles (still not that amazing btw) than one with 2 lascannons and 2 heavy bolters (and vice versa with 4 heavy bolters shooting at infrantry).

If you are firing your thunderfire cannon (or whirlwinds which are like bad versions of thunder fire cannons) at 2+ armor when there is 4+ foot sloggers you could be pummeling, you are doing it wrong.

(obviously there are occasionally tactical moments where you need to fire at sub-optimal targets because of objective contesting etc but this is where experience comes in)

The whirlwinds were shelling drones mainly, not the broadsides. While I appreciate the feedback (especially on optimization) I am painfully aware of target priority by now. Generally I do quitewell with that (except when the dice gods shun me)

I will add a revised list shortly for more feedback.


Here is the revised list which I suddenly realize has a TON of las.

Idea is turn 1 drop 3 pods with 2 combat squads, chapter master, 1 full sternguard squad. Drop pods and bolters shoot to take out drones. Then begin the melta salvoes. If anything important is alive after that, las it to death. Dreadnought, empty drop pod, terminators come in next to mop up squishies. Thunderfire cannon throws templates down while sternguard switch to rapid fire mode and mow down the squishies. Chapter master calls orbital bombardment on whatever is left.