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This has probably been done to death by others but I want insight on everyone elses thoughts of their main armies and favorite codex rules / units they think should be changed, and how. Reason provided as well!

Codex Chaos Space Marines

Ill start from HQ then move onto the other sections by order they appear in the Codex.

Abaddon

Talon of Horus - Should be Assault 4 Rending, Str 4. It's so pointless to incorporate a Combi-Bolter into a melee monsters kit. I'd rather it be good and worth REMEMBERING or have it simply removed. I have NEVER had an instance where shooting it has done anything productive.
Bump Points cost to 270 again.

Huron Blackheart

Hymadrya - Should confer Iron Arm. I hate that Huron basically became a walking D3 chart of either amazement (more often however) or simply freaking garbage. He is arguably the most competent leader the Chaos Faction could have ever asked to be within their ranks and he should feel like it.
Power Axe - Should simply be removed. He doesnt need AP2 if he was balanced around being a CC HQ and not a random win or lose D3 bust. Refer to Above

Kharn the Betrayer

Aura of Dark Glory - Should be Sigil of Corruption

Ahriman

Aura of Dark Glory - Should be Sigil of Corruption. I don't understand why they would bother giving him a 5++ which would go down to a 4++ instead of simply making him KNOWN to be Tzeentches finest by giving him the much deserved 4++ from the Sigil, then letting it confer the 3++ for his Mark. He's already expensive.

Typhus

Toughness 5 - Yeah no. He needs to be Toughness 6. There is no conceivable way Typhus, should ever be the same Toughness value as a Plague Marine. That at least he can go Toe to Toe with a Warboss and not get shat on like some lowly Scout.
Destroyer Hive - Models killed by the Destroyer Hive should form a units of Plague Zombies once they are fully removed from the field. It only makes sense.

Lucius the Eternal

Lash of Torment - Add Rending to it's special rules. I'm pretty sure the galaxies greatest duelist could have a better load out than what he's currently suffering with. It's bad enough he only has a 5++ (He should have a Sigil as well)
Add a Sigil of Corruption - Remove the Armor of Shrieking Souls Invulnerable save and replace with Sigil. Change wording to Armor of Shrieking Souls to read "For each armor or invulnerable save Lucius passes during the Fight Sub-Phase, the unit (or model, if he is in a challenge) that caused the Wound immediately suffers a wound automatically with no saves of any kind allowed.
Bump Points cost to 185

Fabius Bile

Rod of Torment - Add 2 weapon profiles for this artifact, one being single handed and retaining the same profile for Strength and AP maintaining the same Instant Death rules, and a 2 Handed Profile reducing his attacks by 2 but allowing for the Smash USR.

Chaos Lord

Wound Pool - Changed to 4. There is no reason conceivable that a champion of chaos who has bested all other combatants within the warp, who can rise to power and lead entire factions of other Chaos Space Marines, should ever have less wounds that their Imperial counterpart and gimmicky clones.

Chaos Sorcerer

Add Telekinesis to Sorcerers Psychic Discipline manifestation possibilities.

Daemon Prince

All Daemon Princes should be either Eternal Warrior, or Toughness 6. This is the biggest travesty within the entire codex to my eyes since you're investing upwards of 350 points in model that can easily be out performed and destroyed by models costing 1/3 of its point value.

Warp Smith

Make Warp Smiths repair Daemonically Possessed vehicles on a 3+. How the hell do you work for the Dark Mechanicum and NOT know how to fix these things?

Dark Apostles

Nothing to see here folks, just remove this guy, he's never seen table time and no one can vouch for his usefulness over a Chaos Space Marine Sergeant.


Troops

Chaos Space Marines

Icons - All Icons should be payed for by model numbers. There is not reason I can see other than to purposely offer a gimping tool for Chaos Space Marines players to add an Icon that can cost almost as much as a Rhino, only to have it get singled out, and render your unit that much weaker by a marginally large amount of wasted points. This goes for ALL Units capable of purchasing Icons..

Cultists

I have no issue with cultists. I do however have issues with Plague Zombies being that they aren't very plague-like.. Poison 4+ Perhaps?


Elites

Chosen

Drop to 16 PPM.

Possessed

Bring back their power weapons base. Rending on To Wound Rolls of 6 base. Everything in their Crimson Slaughter book should have been baseline, and they know this. We ALL know this. They are garbage otherwise. Not even that nice kind of garbage that can be recycled into bottles, no, the kind of garbage that literally just sits there stinking up the place and reminding you when you first bought said items before you threw them in the trash indefinitely. If we are going to pay 26 PPM we had better be getting 3+ Power Weapons and Rending....

Chaos Terminators

Options for Backpack mounted Havoc Launchers. Option to take more than 1 Reaper Autocannon.

Helbrute

I have nothing to add.

Mutilators

...I could go on a massive rant as to why these things are completely slowed, but I'll simply shorten this up to what they SHOULD be able to do. 1) Have DT Land Raiders 2) Boost squad cap to 5 3) Allow for Icons. Congratulations, Mutilators just got better and now they're actually scary + Competent.

Khorne Berzerkers

Boost Attack Characteristic to 2 on profile. 3 base from pistol and CCW. Up price to 20 PPM Chainaxes Base. These guys were gutted beyond redemption being carried from last edition. Almost as badly as Blood Crushers from Codex Daemons and their horrendous T3 troops.

Thousand Sons

Sorcerer - Allow for access to Telepathy Base. Knows all abilities from Tzeentch Table. He's a lowly lvl 1 Sorcerer, this wouldnt cause a problem since most of the Tzeentch powers are pathetic (considering Tzeentch is supposed to be the great changer and all, infinite knowledge and psychic presence)

Plague Marines

I can't say I wouldn't like for Poisons to not be terrible this edition, if it wasn't for that fact I would actually run these guys more often, but I find myself falling back on the more impressive and deadly Noise Marines. I guess if a guy could dream, Poison 3+ since we no longer get our reroll.

Noise Marines

God I love Noise Marines. And the only thing I could ever want, would be to have the ability to shoot into CCs with models that are marked with Slaanesh or are entirely comprised of Models with Daemons of Slaanesh. Immune to their own medicine perhaps? They love their own pain anyways.

Dedicated Transport Rhino

I hate how bad this thing is as it's base form of use is simply a soap box car. Dedicated units should have specialized Rhinos.

Khorne Berzerker Rhino - Comes with duel Havoc Launchers
Thousand Sons Rhino - Comes with a D6+3 Chain Lightning ability. Str 4 Ap - Soul Blaze
Plague Marines Rhino - Comes with Phlegm Cannon. Str 1 Ap - Large Blast Poison 4+
Noise Marines Rhino - Choir. Torrent Doom Siren. Counts as a Dirge Caster.

IG:

- Put power weapon/fist prices back to 5th edition prices. As it stands they just cost far too much - especially since, on a lot of units, they tend to be more flavourful than useful anyway. I'd likewise lower the cost of the Heirloom Blade thingy, or else make it worth its current price tag.

- Either halve the cost of the Death Mask of Ollanius, or make it grant EW. As it stands it has some nice flavour, but 30pts for adding 1pt of invulnerable save and IWND to a T3 model is just ludicrous.

- Make Heavy Weapon Teams 10pts per model, base. As it stands, I'm not sure why these need to cost more than 2 guardsmen - given that they're no more survivable and highly susceptible to ID.

- Platoon Commander pays the same points as veterans for camo cloak, armour etc.

- If the Company Commander is going to pay more than veterans for his gear, can he perhaps pay 7pts instead of 10? This way, the total for him and his squad comes to a nice, round 15pts - rather than 18pts which makes me want to eat the book. On that note, 1pt Bolt Pistols makes me cry.

- Heavy Bolters seem consistently overcosted, and I'd be tempted to just halve the cost in most places - e.g. A Heavy Bolter just isn't worth as much as an Autocannon on a Heavy Weapons team, nor IMO are 2 HB sponsons on a BS3 Leman Russ worth an extra 20pts.

Mostly this is because the Heavy Bolter has been a crap weapon for some time now and is in desperate need of a boost. I don't know what, maybe make it S6, maybe give it rending, maybe something else.

- With the reduced effectiveness of weapons that aren't AP1/2 against vehicles, I'm not sure the missile launcher should be paying extra for Flakk missiles. It seems like something it should just have anyway (I think this should apply to all applicable books).

- Militarum Tempestus Scions get their ability to reroll deep-strike results back. Also, their name is changed back to 'Stormtroopers'

- Ogryns become cheaper and just bulky (rather than Very Bulky).

- Sergeant Harker gets his stuff back so that we're not doubling the cost of the squad just for a Heavy Bolter.

- Marbo pops back into existence.

- Wyvern should probably cost a bit more.

- Tank Commanders can't be warlords. Yes, I'm fully aware that this one will please me and me alone.

 vipoid wrote:

- Tank Commanders can't be warlords. Yes, I'm fully aware that this one will please me and me alone.

The 293rd Landsharks Mechanised vehemently disagrees with you

For CSM:

-Reduce the cost of a TSon by 2 points, and reduce the Asp sorc by some of it's cost, they're bloody worthless at the current price.
-Do not force psykers of a god to take the god powers, or instead give it to them for free in addition to the others. These are wielders of unholy majiks, y'know.
-Make the Tzeentch powers actually useful.
-Give the codex an inter-unit support system, instead of focusing on melee power.
-Make them BB with the IG, goddamn!
-Give them drop pods, and bring back the Icon of Chaos to make DS'ing worth a damn.
-Make LR's useful.

I went with this thing here for Sisters which is honestly a bit too in depth to really copy and paste with all the changes (and a mistake of leaving Shield of Faith out of it by accident, but the rule is unchanged from the current version so it's not a huge problem).

Grey Knights: give purgation squads access to Lascannons.

Eldar
- cap on amount of warlocks you can take, 3 per CAD
- wave serpents holo fields shoot D3+1 shots, do not benefit from scatter lasers and have 90 degree firing arc
- jetbikes can move 24" in a single turn instead of 48"
- Spiritseer does not make wraithguard troop choices since all the other books are losing that type of option
- swooping hawk point cost increased to match warp spiders
- scatter lasers make the rest of the shots AGAINST THE SAME TARGET twin linked. No more firing scatter lasers at one target and then firing big guns at a different target twin linked

I think that's basically it. Eldar would still be a very powerful army but no longer broken. We would see 1-2 eldar armies in the top 10 instead of 5-6 like we had at NOVA.

Toofast wrote:
Eldar
- cap on amount of warlocks you can take, 3 per CAD

GW has already reduced the number of Warlocks, from 4th edition. You used to be able to theoretically have 29 Warlocks in a single army (2 squads of 10 unlocked by Farseers, 6 with Troops, 3 with Support Batteries).

- wave serpents holo fields shoot D3+1 shots, do not benefit from scatter lasers and have 90 degree firing arc

I'm assuming you mean the Serpent Shield, as holo fields cannot be shot off. If you do mean holo-fields, yes, please give Wave Serpents another weapon. If you meant Serpent Shield, then why would you give it an increased arc? As a hull-mounted weapon it only has a 45 degree arc.

- jetbikes can move 24" in a single turn instead of 48"

This is a rulebook issue, not a codex issue.

- Spiritseer does not make wraithguard troop choices since all the other books are losing that type of option

No opinion either way. The only people who this affect are Iyanden players.

- swooping hawk point cost increased to match warp spiders

Warp Spiders have a better armour save, and can move much faster than Swooping Hawks.

- scatter lasers make the rest of the shots AGAINST THE SAME TARGET twin linked. No more firing scatter lasers at one target and then firing big guns at a different target twin linked

Seeing as how the only things that can benefit from Scatter lasers are vehicles and MCs, and none of them can get the Split Fire special rule, this changes absolutely nothing.

 GoliothOnline wrote:

Huron Blackheart
Hymadrya - Should confer Iron Arm. I hate that Huron basically became a walking D3 chart of either amazement (more often however) or simply freaking garbage. He is arguably the most competent leader the Chaos Faction could have ever asked to be within their ranks and he should feel like it.
Power Axe - Should simply be removed. He doesnt need AP2 if he was balanced around being a CC HQ and not a random win or lose D3 bust. Refer to Above

If you want Iron Arm, take another psyker. His psychic abilities are unique in 40k, and your brilliant plan is to make him like every other character in game? Genius.
Also he is hardly 'the most competent leader' as Chaos has people that commanded in the times of HH or even great crusade.
How is a SM Chapter Master the nobelisti of them all? I kind of see your point tough.
And besides, he's meant to be a supportive character, not a CC monster you're trying to make him.

Typhus
Toughness 5 - Yeah no. He needs to be Toughness 6. There is no conceivable way Typhus, should ever be the same Toughness value as a Plague Marine. That at least he can go Toe to Toe with a Warboss and not get shat on like some lowly Scout.
Destroyer Hive - Models killed by the Destroyer Hive should form a units of Plague Zombies once they are fully removed from the field. It only makes sense.

Why? He's a buffed up Marine, not a MC. He's already tougher than 90% of Marines out there.

Chaos Lord
Wound Pool - Changed to 4. There is no reason conceivable that a champion of chaos who has bested all other combatants within the warp, who can rise to power and lead entire factions of other Chaos Space Marines, should ever have less wounds that their Imperial counterpart and gimmicky clones.

But they have equal amount of wounds, not less. They are equivalent to Captains, not Chapter Masters (those are more like the Chaos characters like Typhus).
Why should they be better? How is that "balancing" the game?

Daemon Prince
All Daemon Princes should be either Eternal Warrior, or Toughness 6. This is the biggest travesty within the entire codex to my eyes since you're investing upwards of 350 points in model that can easily be out performed and destroyed by models costing 1/3 of it's point value.

Because Daemon Princes aren't good enough now....

These aren't ideas of balancing the codex, most of the guys you mentioned are already the top quality stuff there (Typhus, Daemon Prince).
You just want to make your stuff better for no apparent reason.

 soomemafia wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:

Huron Blackheart
Hymadrya - Should confer Iron Arm. I hate that Huron basically became a walking D3 chart of either amazement (more often however) or simply freaking garbage. He is arguably the most competent leader the Chaos Faction could have ever asked to be within their ranks and he should feel like it.
Power Axe - Should simply be removed. He doesnt need AP2 if he was balanced around being a CC HQ and not a random win or lose D3 bust. Refer to Above

If you want Iron Arm, take another psyker. His psychic abilities are unique in 40k, and your brilliant plan is to make him like every other character in game? Genius.
Also he is hardly 'the most competent leader' as Chaos has people that commanded in the times of HH or even great crusade.
How is a SM Chapter Master the nobelisti of them all? I kind of see your point tough.
And besides, he's meant to be a supportive character, not a CC monster you're trying to make him.

Typhus
Toughness 5 - Yeah no. He needs to be Toughness 6. There is no conceivable way Typhus, should ever be the same Toughness value as a Plague Marine. That at least he can go Toe to Toe with a Warboss and not get shat on like some lowly Scout.
Destroyer Hive - Models killed by the Destroyer Hive should form a units of Plague Zombies once they are fully removed from the field. It only makes sense.

Why? He's a buffed up Marine, not a MC. He's already tougher than 90% of Marines out there.

Chaos Lord
Wound Pool - Changed to 4. There is no reason conceivable that a champion of chaos who has bested all other combatants within the warp, who can rise to power and lead entire factions of other Chaos Space Marines, should ever have less wounds that their Imperial counterpart and gimmicky clones.

But they have equal amount of wounds, not less. They are equivalent to Captains, not Chapter Masters (those are more like the Chaos characters like Typhus).
Why should they be better? How is that "balancing" the game?

Daemon Prince
All Daemon Princes should be either Eternal Warrior, or Toughness 6. This is the biggest travesty within the entire codex to my eyes since you're investing upwards of 350 points in model that can easily be out performed and destroyed by models costing 1/3 of it's point value.

Because Daemon Princes aren't good enough now....

These aren't ideas of balancing the codex, most of the guys you mentioned are already the top quality stuff there (Typhus, Daemon Prince).
You just want to make your stuff better for no apparent reason.

Obviously your personal attitude against what my personal beliefs in what would make the units within the codex I chose better, don't agree, you also didn't even bother to add anything to the conversation... "I don't agree with you because you just want to make things better" Well no crap lol How can you ever justify for instance, spending 350+ points on a model that can be killed by a 125 point str 10 tank? Oh thats right, every Tau player in existence will vouch for that notion, and anyone else that has access to long range str 10 weaponry would think its balanced for nearly 1/3 of the points cost. For your Notion of Typhus, you are just absolutely wrong by all accounts. Typhus by lore is more blessed by Nurgle than MORTARIAN. There is no conceivable reason for him to NOT be better than his Plague Marines. And Huron IS the greatest tactician Chaos Space Marines have.... This isn't up for debate, it's just plain knowledge... I don't know what books other people have read or where it is people get the idea that he isn't, but DO explain if you can! And just FYI, I'm not trying to make Huron out to be a run of the mill Psyker. His Psyker abilities were always less Psyker related in his Lore and simply manifestations of abnormal Physical abilities and augmentative combat. He simply shouldn't be a random win/lose (More often lose) D3 chart of bollocks.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Obviously your personal attitude against what my personal beliefs in what would make the units within the codex I chose better, don't agree, you also didn't even bother to add anything to the conversation... "I don't agree with you because you just want to make things better" Well no crap lol How can you ever justify for instance, spending 350+ points on a model that can be killed by a 160 point str 10 tank? Oh thats right, every Tau player in existence will vouch for that notion, and anyone else that has access to long range str 10 weaponry would think its balanced for nearly 1/3 of the points cost. For your Notion of Typhus, you are just absolutely wrong by all accounts. Typhus by lore is more blessed by Nurgle than MORTARIAN. There is no conceivable reason for him to NOT be better than his Plague Marines. And Huron IS the greatest tactician Chaos Space Marines have.... This isn't up for debate, it's just plain knowledge... I don't know what books other people have read or where it is people get the idea that he isn't, but DO explain if you can! And just FYI, I'm not trying to make Huron out to be a run of the mill Psyker. His Psyker abilities were always less Psyker related in his Lore and simply manifestations of abnormal Physical abilities and augmentative combat. He simply shouldn't be a random win/lose (More often lose) D3 chart of bollocks.

Except the name of your thread is not "What would you attempt to make better within 1 codex of your choice?" it is "What would you attempt to balance within 1 codex of your choice?".

^ Thank you, my point exactly.

And your claim that I have some "personal attitudes against what you believe in".
I just tought that your post doesn't reflect the message of the name of this thread.

And here's a headline for you: sometimes certain awesome units do have weaknesses. The fact that something like five weapons with S10 exist is not a good reason to give already powerful unit new rules to make them even more powerful.
He can be insta-killed. That's sad. But if you give him EW, it will definitely not balance this game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Hymadrya - Should confer Iron Arm

He simply shouldn't be a random win/lose (More often lose) D3 chart of bollocks.

So instead of win/lose he should be epic auto win? Why..?

 Happyjew wrote:
Except the name of your thread is not "What would you attempt to make better within 1 codex of your choice?" it is "What would you attempt to balance within 1 codex of your choice?".

On that note: the Space Marine codex. The internal balance is pretty good, but a few things stick out:

- The Gravgun/Bike synergy is too powerful. Either the gravgun should be reworked (as it's barely ever taken outside of bike lists), or bikes should lose relentless (with the exception of Attack Bikes). Honestly, I feel that the gravgun profile should be replaced with the graviton gun that the Contemptor Dreadnought uses (which fills a very different role, instead of competing with the Plasma Gun like the current gravgun does).
- Bike Troops with Objective Secured in battle forged detachments are overly strong. This would be better handled by a special detachment than by FOC shifting (the next SM codex will probably do exactly that). Maybe have a detachment where HQ and 2 Fast Attack slots are the minimum requirement, and Fast Attack has extra slots available.
- Thunderfire Cannons are overly strong. They should go down to 48" range, 12" minimum, and lose the ability to bolster defense (or else make that an option you can buy).
- Grav Centurions are overly strong. Either the grav cannon needs a significant change (again, I would advocate making it a souped-up version of the heresy Graviton Gun), or its strength should be significantly toned down. At the same time, their other weapon options should be made cheaper (base cost might need to go down to make the heavy bolters and attractive option).
- Tactical Terminators and Assault Terminators should be merged into one entry, similar to how Deathwing terminators are handled.
- All the Dreadnought weapons ought to be available for both arms. The lack of flexibility severely hinders the utility of Dreadnoughts.
- Flakk Missiles should be cheaper, or else be a default firing mode for missile launchers.
- The Black Templar need to be totally overhauled. Right now, their rules have anti-synergy. The way special and heavy weapon options work in Crusader Squads is dumb, it discourages you from taking big blobs. Sword Brothers are a waste of points. The Crusader rule is pointless if you're riding around in Land Raiders, or if you want to assault. Their challenge rules are overly specialized. Their special characters are not effective. The only thing they have going for them is ObSec Land Raiders and army-wide Adamantium Will.
- Most of the Special Characters in the codex need to be re-worked. Sicarius, Cassius, Grimdalus, Shrike, Helbrecht and the Emperor's Champion are overcosted or have ineffective wargear options. Tigurius is somewhat overpowered, and should probably lose a few of his special abilities (or else take a point hike).

all i can say is that if your daemon princes are getting insta-killed, you're doing it wrong.

i ran a flying circus for quite a while and can count on one hand the times that a prince got one shotted.


i do agree on the wave serpent nonsense. i think serpent shields are super dumb. ignore cover is way too good to be able to drop that many shots, that reliably, that often. an av 12, closed top, 3 hp vehicle with a 3+ save behind ruins is crazy. make it close to 200 points if its going to be that good.

I'll admit, land raiders are super resilient now, but if i had to pick between serpents and land raiders, id probably take serpents more often than not. even if they were the same price.

if i see an opponent put 4+ serpents down, i know it wont even be a fun loss.

i dont have a problem with eldar jetbikes now that everything can score. all they can do is contest. with so many scoring units, its easy to get a unit on everything.

now that GK are back out and ive had to play a few games against marines, i agree that grav can be a big overwhelming. i dont mint the gun, but i think a shorter range would be better. 18" seems about right, or if youre shooting it at 24" you only get half the shots. knowing that a block of centurians is pretty nasty to kill and they have a 30" absolute destruction bubble can be a real downer.

i think grav is cool and wouldnt want it nerfed, but i think a slightly shorter range would be nice. psycannons were awesome, they are still awesome, but theyre not quite as cheesy anymore. grav could benefit from the same.

in the meantime, I'm gonna buy 5 grav cents and teleport around with draigo. #tournamentbuild

Serpent Shields are pretty easy to fix: 24" range, 1 shot only, if shot the vehicle loses the shield. Keep the rest the same.

raoiley wrote:
all i can say is that if your daemon princes are getting insta-killed, you're doing it wrong.

I have to say, I can't recall many occasions when our CSM player's 'prince was insta-killed. The only one I can remember involved MSS and a DP killing himself with the Black Mace.

raoiley wrote:

i ran a flying circus for quite a while and can count on one hand the times that a prince got one shotted.

Sorry, but what's Flying Circus?

raoiley wrote:

i do agree on the wave serpent nonsense. i think serpent shields are super dumb. ignore cover is way too good to be able to drop that many shots, that reliably, that often. an av 12, closed top, 3 hp vehicle with a 3+ save behind ruins is crazy. make it close to 200 points if its going to be that good.

The other aspect is that the Wave Serpent is a dedicated transport - it just shouldn't be putting out that amount of firepower.

raoiley wrote:
in the meantime, I'm gonna buy 5 grav cents and teleport around with draigo. #tournamentbuild

Man, that's going to be gross to play against

Captain Smashbane, a gaggle of grav bike troops, and 5 grav cents. Ally in Draigo, a divination psyker, and a terminator squad (maybe take a land raider with ObSec just to be cheeky). Teleport every turn with the Draigo/Smashbane/CentStar with Divination psyker providing prescience/perfect timing support. pew pew pew

 GoliothOnline wrote:

Huron Blackheart

Hymadrya - Should confer Iron Arm. I hate that Huron basically became a walking D3 chart of either amazement (more often however) or simply freaking garbage. He is arguably the most competent leader the Chaos Faction could have ever asked to be within their ranks and he should feel like it.
Power Axe - Should simply be removed. He doesnt need AP2 if he was balanced around being a CC HQ and not a random win or lose D3 bust. Refer to Above

Just no. Huron is a jack-of-all-trades type of character, not an auto-winning god-tier model allowing you to play the game on "easy mode." As is, he's still one of the best HQ options in the book and doesn't need any buffing.
And on that note, feth NO! to removing his Power axe! Part of what makes him so damn amazaballs is that he IS such an instant tool kit - he's got his claw for carving up most targets, but can swap out to ap2 for when it's really needed. Why the hell do you think that one of the most popular equips for Chaos is to go Lightning claw + Power fist? Huron's is just slightly below that, but he gains added anti-horde through his Heavy flamer.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Ahriman

Aura of Dark Glory - Should be Sigil of Corruption. I don't understand why they would bother giving him a 5++ which would go down to a 4++ instead of simply making him KNOWN to be Tzeentches finest by giving him the much deserved 4++ from the Sigil, then letting it confer the 3++ for his Mark. He's already expensive.

Absolutely not. 7th has made Ahriman one of the game's best psykers... Take Psy Shriek + 2 rolls on Santic and enjoy the pure carnage. 3x psy shrieks per turn is over powered as hell!
His only real weakness is that he's [/I]NOT![/I] a 3++ like almost every other Tzeentch character in existence will be.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Typhus

Toughness 5 - Yeah no. He needs to be Toughness 6. There is no conceivable way Typhus, should ever be the same Toughness value as a Plague Marine. That at least he can go Toe to Toe with a Warboss and not get shat on like some lowly Scout.
Destroyer Hive - Models killed by the Destroyer Hive should form a units of Plague Zombies once they are fully removed from the field. It only makes sense.

No, Typhus is more than tough enough as he is due to being an IC. If your Typhus is dying to Warboss than you're doing it wrong... He's the same toughness as other Plaguemarines because he's, (wait for it), a Plaguemarine himself!
And no to Typhus making more Zombies. Only Zombies should be making more Zombies, not a beatstick Chaos Lord!

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Chaos Sorcerer
Add Telekinesis to Sorcerers Psychic Discipline manifestation possibilities.

Why? Telepathy, Bio, Santic and Malefic through the CS relic are all far, far superior lores.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Daemon Prince

All Daemon Princes should be either Eternal Warrior, or Toughness 6. This is the biggest travesty within the entire codex to my eyes since you're investing upwards of 350 points in model that can easily be out performed and destroyed by models costing 1/3 of its point value.

No. Eternal Warrior and/or T6 would simply make them obnoxiously over powered monstrosities. As mentioned, if you're easily losing that 350pts model, then you're doing it wrong.

Warp Smith
Make Warp Smiths repair Daemonically Possessed vehicles on a 3+. How the hell do you work for the Dark Mechanicum and NOT know how to fix these things?

Dark Apostles

Nothing to see here folks, just remove this guy, he's never seen table time and no one can vouch for his usefulness over a Chaos Space Marine Sergeant.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Sorry, but pretty much all of your "balancing ideas" read simply as "I want MY army to be amazaballs because I like my crutches"

Definitely a common issue when trying to do any sort of homebrew tweaking.

You did a nice job looking at all of that, you mind taking a look at my attempt at better balance/fix the Sisters codex and tear it apart a bit? I could always use some critical feedback on my work for the next time I try and do something like it. I admit ahead of time that I made a mistake and left out the rule for Shield of Faith, but it's unchanged from the 6++/AW that the current one gives.

Orks.

Cybork body is a 6++

 vipoid wrote:

raoiley wrote:
i ran a flying circus for quite a while and can count on one hand the times that a prince got one shotted.

Sorry, but what's Flying Circus?

It basically means a daemon list that spams FMC's.
The name is rather confusing as it originally meant a list of Falcons+Harlequins in 4th edition (or was it 5th?) Eldar codex

 ClockworkZion wrote:
[
Definitely a common issue when trying to do any sort of homebrew tweaking.

Indeed.

On a related note, is there anything in the IG book that people think should cost more or be toned down for balance?

 vipoid wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Definitely a common issue when trying to do any sort of homebrew tweaking.

Indeed.

On a related note, is there anything in the IG book that people think should cost more or be toned down for balance?

I feel basic Ogryns need a slight points drop to make them more attractive. Rough Riders need a tweak to make them better (perhaps changing their weapon to only work on the charge and maybe give them Hit and Run or a solid points reduction to make them better).

I don't really have much else that crosses my mind without the book in front of me.

Hades Breaching Drill goes back to its 5th edition rules.

Some of the Assault Brigade stuff becomes available for the Siege Regiment list.

Quartermaster gives a 5+ FNP

I know people have talked it over but I'd still put Thousand Sons here. Or hell, just the mark of tzeentch in general. Only reason is because I just really don't know what to do. Both are dramatically underpowered options. KSons suffer from costing far too much, having a psyker table that really only has one worth-wile spell and being forced to roll on it twice, and being forced to basically be anti 3+ armor and that's it.

As per the mark, really it's just because there's not a single time it's a good pick.

Possessed? If I had to do anything, I'd really just make it less random but that's more for fluffy reasons honestly (I play them anyways)

1KSons definitely need to get cheaper. They're not close to being worth their points.

Grey Knights

The Psycannon needs to be 36" S7 AP4 Salvo 2/4, Rending.
For a point of Reference, the Space Marine Lascannon is 20 points, while the Psycannon is 15 points for PAGK, and 20 points for Terminators. They should have the 36" range for that same cost.
Relentless models and stationary PAGK could fire at 36", allowing units holding objectives to not be entirely out of the fight. Mobile PAGK could still fire at 18". It is necessary for the range to be greater than their charge distance being as firing the weapon now prevents them from charging, and would otherwise be useless to them.
A 36" Psycannon would be the ONLY man-portable ranged weapon in the entirety of the Grey Knight arsenal with a range greater than 24" other than the Conversion Beamer we can only put on Techmarines.

That one change to the Psycannon would fix most of the problems with this Codex.

Instead of the Teleport Homer, each Grey Knight unit capable of Deep Striking needs a piece of equipment or a special rule that reduces their own Deep Strike scatter. Turn 1 Deep Strike can't use the Homer because they'd be arriving in their own deployment zone, which is a waste of the ability. Turn 2+ Deep Strike can only make use of the homers if you got a unit with one where the Deep Striker needs to be, and the model holding the homer isn't killed in the opponent's turn. Teleport Homers are virtually useless to Grey Knights.

Crowe needs to be cheaper than the Brotherhood Champion. We don't need him as a tax on Purifiers any more, he lost Rending 4+, and he has no AP in close combat apart from challenges. Crowe is a beast in challenges, but is kind of useless otherwise.

Next are the onlysuggestions that would require changes to models.

The Razorback should have an option for a Heavy Psycannon for its main weapon.

Storm Ravens and Land Raider Crusaders should be able to replace their Hurricane Bolters with Psycannons to give them back the ability to take on light armor half decently, now that Psybolt Ammunition is gone.

ForeverARookie wrote:

For a point of Reference, the Space Marine Lascannon is 20 points, while the Psycannon is 15 points for PAGK, and 20 points for Terminators. They should have the 36" range for that same cost.

Why?

When stationary (or Relentless) the Psycannon fires 4 times as many shots as the Lascannon - all with rending and at high strength.

Also, whilst the range is short, the Psycannon can fire 2 shots after moving - whilst moving with a lascannon allows you only a single snap-fire shot.

Experiment 626 thanks for your feedback!

few things to make note of. Challenges ruin Icon Champs :( Its nice to have FNP on CC Noise Marines for instance, but then you run into a group of Nobs and a bike-boss chews through your Champion automatically and you lose out of 35 points + Champion costs.

As for the Typhus thing, Ive played a good 2-250 games with my CSM this edition, now, Can't say he's good in melee aside from this Destroyer Hive. Even if you put him in a squad of 35 zombies, have the champion eat a challenge and have Typhus wreck some enemies, it's far too easy to dish out enough wounds to make Typhus rely on his 5++ and eat str 10 PKs or worse still, a Chapter Master on the charge for as dirt cheap as they are and as durable as they become.

As for Huron. I have used him to death. lol Not once have I made headway with his powers in any shape, nor have I ever rolled for something to make use of when I truly needed it. The reason I say he should simply drop his Psyker abilities is Lore Wise and for less randomness (Which as a Daemon Player as well, and having made the transition from CSM to Daemons, FREAKIN PISSES ME OFF having to deal with even more) lol


Sorry, but pretty much all of your "balancing ideas" read simply as "I want MY army to be amazaballs because I like my crutches"

Lol This makes me giggle because I play Tau as well. Speaking of crutches, Riptides. Or even Wraithknights. Hell, all of the Eldar army as a whole. Basic troops that can effectively kill anything they want at any point? Man that must be nice. And for THAT cheap? wowza. I don't want Chaos Space Marines to be Winzor & Free dice rolls to victory, My problem is having played other armies and seen just how outclassed they are in every respect of the manner and seeing how much a slap in the face GW has thrown our way in terms of competency for the Codex. Having said that, I have played many Games against my CSM friends, Daemons friends, I ID Daemon Princes all the freakin time. Flying? No problem, let me just TL my HH and see if you get lucky to save any of my str 10 Cannon shots with your 5++. It just doesnt save them. You'll make 1 every now or then, but it's just WAY to easy to rid the board of them.

ForeverARookie wrote:
Grey Knights

The Psycannon needs to be 36" S7 AP4 Salvo 2/4, Rending.
For a point of Reference, the Space Marine Lascannon is 20 points, while the Psycannon is 15 points for PAGK, and 20 points for Terminators. They should have the 36" range for that same cost.
Relentless models and stationary PAGK could fire at 36", allowing units holding objectives to not be entirely out of the fight. Mobile PAGK could still fire at 18". It is necessary for the range to be greater than their charge distance being as firing the weapon now prevents them from charging, and would otherwise be useless to them.
A 36" Psycannon would be the ONLY man-portable ranged weapon in the entirety of the Grey Knight arsenal with a range greater than 24" other than the Conversion Beamer we can only put on Techmarines.

That one change to the Psycannon would fix most of the problems with this Codex.

Instead of the Teleport Homer, each Grey Knight unit capable of Deep Striking needs a piece of equipment or a special rule that reduces their own Deep Strike scatter. Turn 1 Deep Strike can't use the Homer because they'd be arriving in their own deployment zone, which is a waste of the ability. Turn 2+ Deep Strike can only make use of the homers if you got a unit with one where the Deep Striker needs to be, and the model holding the homer isn't killed in the opponent's turn. Teleport Homers are virtually useless to Grey Knights.

Crowe needs to be cheaper than the Brotherhood Champion. We don't need him as a tax on Purifiers any more, he lost Rending 4+, and he has no AP in close combat apart from challenges. Crowe is a beast in challenges, but is kind of useless otherwise.

Next are the onlysuggestions that would require changes to models.

The Razorback should have an option for a Heavy Psycannon for its main weapon.

Storm Ravens and Land Raider Crusaders should be able to replace their Hurricane Bolters with Psycannons to give them back the ability to take on light armor half decently, now that Psybolt Ammunition is gone.

Agreed it annoys me a lil' bit I had made assault cannons for my vehicles to proxy psycannons.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I know people have talked it over but I'd still put Thousand Sons here. Or hell, just the mark of tzeentch in general. Only reason is because I just really don't know what to do. Both are dramatically underpowered options. KSons suffer from costing far too much, having a psyker table that really only has one worth-wile spell and being forced to roll on it twice, and being forced to basically be anti 3+ armor and that's it.

Agreed, Thousand Sons do need to be cheaper. And they need an AP3 Heavy Bolter option to rock in their squads too (1 for every 10? Or maybe 1 for every 5?) just to give them some more range and give them a perk for being SnP. It's not like they get to Overwatch anyways with it. Oh and maybe make them Relentless when the Sorc is alive so that way he has more of a purpose in the squad than generating Warp Charges.