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Between both the normal codex and the supplement what seems to be one of the orks units that are able to obtain deathstar caliber?

Grots!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well reflecting on it again...ya nope, still grots

Meganobz hit hard enough

Green tide with several CADs of gretchin and characters seems pretty good. A couple meks and a pain boy and it all gets a 5++/5+++, and you can include some mega armored things to tank light arms if you really wanted to (at the cost of not running or over watching). And it all gets a 5+ cover from your screening grots.

So while 5+/5++ (or 4++ if kustom mega forcefield)/5+++ may not sound amazing, that's on your six point boys. They'll soak up loads of fire until your bosses/meks/nobs get close enough to punch things, and you have tons of characters to accept challenges for your warlord.

Council of the waagh from the ghaz supplement.

 Ascalam wrote:
Council of the waagh from the ghaz supplement.

This. Also, the Bullyboys formation from that very same supplement, even if it's on the pricey side of things. And, of course, the Stompa, which fits the description of "Deathstar" quite... literally.

And if formations and superheavies are still frowned upon in your area, you can field a deathstar-lite with 10-15 warbikers, a painboy and a warboss on a bike with the Lucky Stikk. It's no jetseer council, but it's quite survivable and hits like a bag of bricks. Just bear in mind that orks, deathstar-ry or not, work best as bullies - Pick your targets wisely and all will be fine.

Ork codex is not exactly deathstar-oriented. Your units are designed to thrive on the weaker stuff and tarpit the tougher stuff. The closer you can get to a 'deathstar' are bikers/nob bikers + bikerboss + biker painboss + kff mek on a bike or the council which of WAAAAGH. But don't expect any of theese to compete with other race's deathstars.

Someone might tell that greentide formation is a deathstar but it just feels different. It's a helhuge mob of boyz. They're not particularly super-tough, fast or extraordinarry killy - there's just an enormous mass of them.

The idea is that ork deathstars tend to be less devastating than other deathstars but are much cheaper! They're still wiping the floor with anything else other than dedicated stuff.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Council of the waagh from the ghaz supplement.

This. Also, the Bullyboys formation from that very same supplement, even if it's on the pricey side of things. And, of course, the Stompa, which fits the description of "Deathstar" quite... literally.

And if formations and superheavies are still frowned upon in your area, you can field a deathstar-lite with 10-15 warbikers, a painboy and a warboss on a bike with the Lucky Stikk. It's no jetseer council, but it's quite survivable and hits like a bag of bricks. Just bear in mind that orks, deathstar-ry or not, work best as bullies - Pick your targets wisely and all will be fine.

The Bully Boyz are.... it depends. Ork Meganobz are unbelievably hard to kill with bolters and blades but fall apart like a sack of unmentionables against AP2 instant death attacks like demolisher shells, demo charges, nemesis greatswords, etc, etc.

The Bully Boyz are fearless, which makes a big difference. There's certainly no argument that they're not killy enough; especially with Killsaws, few things can survive a round of attacks from a decent size mob...

Biker WB + Biker BM KFF + Biker Painboy + Biker Nobz

The council is, unfortunately, an expensive mass of quite choppy guyz without adequate protection and mobility whatsoever. Almost never worth the points. But might count for an 'odd' deathstar.

It's from Waaagh! Ghazghkull, so that Big Mek in the council can have the 4++ KFF.

The toughest load-out for a council would be Thrakka, Grotznik, two MA warbosses, Big Mek on bike w/ mega force field, three biker nobz. You tank shots with the warbosses or Thrakka, which gives you an average of T5 and a 2+/4++/FNP save against shooting.

Optional wargear fo the unit includes a SAG and the-kill dakka for shooting, though it's arguable whether you want to risk losing your 4++ save to a mishap. Additional nobz taken for more wounds would also add their dakkaguns to the mix.

I think it's a full-fledged death star already, it's main problem is its slowness. I don't think that putting it in a battlewagon will fix the problem, since even with that 4++ save that wagon isn't going to survive turn 1.

A deathstar that moves 6' per turn and has no real shooting?.. It's like calling GUO a deathstar. Yep, they're hardy but have no invul in mellee, so if they meet something mellee-oriented with ap2, they're in trouble. And with such movement speed, it's not you who's picking targets. And even if they're not shot hard enough on the way there, what's the best possible turn that they make a charge?

They might have some use at 2500+ games with a lot of footsloggas.

Another option you can use other than the council of the Waaagh with a battlewagon...

5 Deffcopta's, Warboss on bike with lucky sticks and a painboy
The 5 deffcopta's have 2 wounds, decent options of dakka and with lucky sticks it gives you the effect of a Waaagh banner.

If you toss in another CAD, you can pull a big Mek on a bike with the 4++ KFF relic from Waaagh Ghaz supplement and toss him in there for some more cross field nastiness. Bare in mind that the KFF only offers invuln saves from shooting attacks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
A deathstar that moves 6' per turn and has no real shooting?.. It's like calling GUO a deathstar. Yep, they're hardy but have no invul in mellee, so if they meet something mellee-oriented with ap2, they're in trouble. And with such movement speed, it's not you who's picking targets.

They might have some use at 2500+ games with a lot of footsloggas.

It's an expensive Deathstar but the council of the Waaagh can purchase a battlewagon thru the Nobz
With the 4++ KFF you get around the battlewagon you should be able to get to wear you're going and assault out of it.

What I did once using the council, I had them in a battlewagon and gave one of my Warbosses the choppa of ragnorok. I then proceeded to challenge everyone I came into contact with. In two turns his choppa was hitting at S10 AP1. With Waagh banner and special rule granting +1 WS on top of that I had an avg WS7 mob of pure awesomeness. I will concede that where I ended up failing was an actual GUO with enfeebled and iron arm destroyed my 1200 point DEath Star all by himself.

 koooaei wrote:
A deathstar that moves 6' per turn and has no real shooting?.. It's like calling GUO a deathstar. Yep, they're hardy but have no invul in mellee, so if they meet something mellee-oriented with ap2, they're in trouble. And with such movement speed, it's not you who's picking targets. And even if they're not shot hard enough on the way there, what's the best possible turn that they make a charge?

They might have some use at 2500+ games with a lot of footsloggas.

The best possible turn would be turn 2, but more likely turn 3, as Thrakka allows MA to run during the Waaagh! and you have a good chance of getting crusader for that unit. You can also use the bikes to drive ahead and drag the rest of the unit into combat or get more enemy units into the fight.

AP2 is less trouble than it seems, you just LoS! to one of the bikers without banner and then try to FNP it.

I doubt that a paladin unit has much better shooting than the Council with dakka-guns, kill-dakka and SAG/Tellyporta Blasta. Assault terminators have no shooting at all, and still qualify for a death-star.

Note that I'm not arguing that the Council of Waaagh! is a good choice. It's way to expensive since a good load-out (relic choppa, SAG, killsaw, kill-dakka, additional nobz) is bordering 1000 points. Just because it's not competitive doesn't mean it's not a death star


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
If you toss in another CAD, you can pull a big Mek on a bike with the 4++ KFF relic from Waaagh Ghaz supplement and toss him in there for some more cross field nastiness. Bare in mind that the KFF only offers invuln saves from shooting attacks

Waaagh! Ghagzhkull rules are only available in a Great Waaagh! Detachment, you cannot use them in a CAD.

Can bikers opt to jink even if there are not only bikers in the unit?
You almost made me wana field the council! Fortunately, i don't have Ghazzy
I don't know, maybe that's an old fart's ork psychology that i'd rather run a helhuge ammount of stuff rather than one small megaunit.

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
A deathstar that moves 6' per turn and has no real shooting?.. It's like calling GUO a deathstar. Yep, they're hardy but have no invul in mellee, so if they meet something mellee-oriented with ap2, they're in trouble. And with such movement speed, it's not you who's picking targets. And even if they're not shot hard enough on the way there, what's the best possible turn that they make a charge?

They might have some use at 2500+ games with a lot of footsloggas.

The best possible turn would be turn 2, but more likely turn 3, as Thrakka allows MA to run during the Waaagh! and you have a good chance of getting crusader for that unit. You can also use the bikes to drive ahead and drag the rest of the unit into combat or get more enemy units into the fight.

AP2 is less trouble than it seems, you just LoS! to one of the bikers without banner and then try to FNP it.

I doubt that a paladin unit has much better shooting than the Council with dakka-guns, kill-dakka and SAG/Tellyporta Blasta. Assault terminators have no shooting at all, and still qualify for a death-star.

Note that I'm not arguing that the Council of Waaagh! is a good choice. It's way to expensive since a good load-out (relic choppa, SAG, killsaw, kill-dakka, additional nobz) is bordering 1000 points. Just because it's not competitive doesn't mean it's not a death star


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
If you toss in another CAD, you can pull a big Mek on a bike with the 4++ KFF relic from Waaagh Ghaz supplement and toss him in there for some more cross field nastiness. Bare in mind that the KFF only offers invuln saves from shooting attacks

Waaagh! Ghagzhkull rules are only available in a Great Waaagh! Detachment, you cannot use them in a CAD.

The Mek is meant for a biker Death Star, not the Waaagh council.
No other unit or IC can join the WC

Oh wait, I know what you're saying. That a CAD can't use orkimedes items. Only a GWD, I believe you're mistaken. Waaagh Ghaz has a special detatchment, yes, and special formations, yes but no where does it say that only these formations and detachments can use the items. The detatchments and formations in that book can not take items from Gork and Mork and must take items from Orkimedes.

Nothing states that a regular CAD can't take items from orkimedes. You just can't cross load orkimedes items and Gork and Mork items in the same unit. And regardless even if you field a GWD all you're doing is getting one guy from that detachment and adding him to the bike/deffcopta unit

I think the first sentence on orkimedes paragraph specifies that only orks from formations or detachments of the Waaagh book can have access to orkimedes gubbins.

Access, yes. But you can take a Big Mek from the supplement, give him the 4++ MFF, and have him join a unit from the Ork Codex.

You just can' t give the MFF to a Big Mek from the codex.

Orks technically dont have a "death star" since all of our crazy units have a glaring weakness that when exploited wipes the unit in seconds. Council of Da Waaaagh! is probably the best since you have 3 T5 2+ armor warbosses (face it who the hell wouldnt put MA on the extra warbosses...theyre already SNP from Ghaz anyway) tanking damage with a 4++ KFF save the mek has case they get penned, and FNP backing it up. Problem is that it is dead expensive lol, and even this one crumbles if it faces a proper deathstar.

Remember orks are bullies. The motto "shoot the assaulty and assault the shooty" was created because of ork tactics. Ork melee units may be able to do some severe damage to other assault units but odds are not in a favorable outcome to you. A group of MANz for instance can most likely kill a MC but they wont do anything else afterwords since they probably lost all except 1-2 of their ranks lol.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

The Mek is meant for a biker Death Star, not the Waaagh council.
No other unit or IC can join the WC

Oh wait, I know what you're saying. That a CAD can't use orkimedes items. Only a GWD, I believe you're mistaken. Waaagh Ghaz has a special detatchment, yes, and special formations, yes but no where does it say that only these formations and detachments can use the items. The detatchments and formations in that book can not take items from Gork and Mork and must take items from Orkimedes.

Nothing states that a regular CAD can't take items from orkimedes. You just can't cross load orkimedes items and Gork and Mork items in the same unit. And regardless even if you field a GWD all you're doing is getting one guy from that detachment and adding him to the bike/deffcopta unit

coredump wrote:
Access, yes. But you can take a Big Mek from the supplement, give him the 4++ MFF, and have him join a unit from the Ork Codex.

You just can' t give the MFF to a Big Mek from the codex.

Both of you are wrong.

Actually, the very first sentence of the supplement rules does state that.you can only access any of W!G rule without fielding a Greater Waaagh! Detachment or formation. The rules for the relics then state again that they can only be taken in formations and detachments from Waaagh! Ghazghkull. You can neither declare a CAD to be of W!G or pick a single model from W!G.

WAAAGH! GHAZGHKULL SPECIAL RULES

If you use the Formations or the Great Waaagh! Detachment in this book, the following supplemental special rules apply to all of the units they contain.
[...]
ORKIMEDE’S KUSTOM GUBBINZ

Any units from a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Gifts of Gork and Mork cannot select from those listed in Codex: Orks, but can instead select from Orkimedes’ Kustom Gubbinz, presented opposite, at the points costs shown.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Orks technically dont have a "death star" since all of our crazy units have a glaring weakness that when exploited wipes the unit in seconds. Council of Da Waaaagh! is probably the best since you have 3 T5 2+ armor warbosses (face it who the hell wouldnt put MA on the extra warbosses...theyre already SNP from Ghaz anyway) tanking damage with a 4++ KFF save the mek has case they get penned, and FNP backing it up. Problem is that it is dead expensive lol, and even this one crumbles if it faces a proper deathstar.

I wouldn't bet on it. The council has such insanely high amounts of PK attacks, even units with rerollable 2++ saves will take two or three casualties. Anything with less simple gets obliterated. I had a Council of Waaagh! defeat an invisible jetseer council in a single round of combat after rolling a 3 for rampage.

 Jidmah wrote:
[

coredump wrote:
Access, yes. But you can take a Big Mek from the supplement, give him the 4++ MFF, and have him join a unit from the Ork Codex.

You just can' t give the MFF to a Big Mek from the codex.

Both of you are wrong.

Actually, the very first sentence of the supplement rules does state that.you can only access any of W!G rule without fielding a Greater Waaagh! Detachment or formation. The rules for the relics then state again that they can only be taken in formations and detachments from Waaagh! Ghazghkull. You can neither declare a CAD to be of W!G or pick a single model from W!G.

WAAAGH! GHAZGHKULL SPECIAL RULES

If you use the Formations or the Great Waaagh! Detachment in this book, the following supplemental special rules apply to all of the units they contain.
[...]
ORKIMEDE’S KUSTOM GUBBINZ

Any units from a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Gifts of Gork and Mork cannot select from those listed in Codex: Orks, but can instead select from Orkimedes’ Kustom Gubbinz, presented opposite, at the points costs shown.

Um.... do you want to elaborate on how I am 'wrong'. Everything you posted supports my statements.

the way you wrote it makes it sound like you are literally taking a random Big Mek from W!G without the troop requirements to make a formation. Thats what Jidmah is referring to.

Yes you can do what you said if you take 2 units of random grots as well to fill out the CAD requirements. You simply said "take a W!G big mek"

Which tends to fall under the multiple-CAD issue a ton of places forbid.

EDIT: Also im not saying the Council will get wrecked if they face a proper melee star with no side-effects. Odds are the council will kill whoever they face, what i meant is they will probably suffer WAY more damage than the unit they just cleaned up.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the way you wrote it makes it sound like you are literally taking a random Big Mek from W!G without the troop requirements to make a formation. Thats what Jidmah is referring to.

Yes you can do what you said if you take 2 units of random grots as well to fill out the CAD requirements. You simply said "take a W!G big mek"

Sorry, I thought it was a safe assumption that you have to take theBig Mek legally... but I guess 'what is legal' was the entire point.

If you take a Big Mek legally from the WG supplement (Using a detachment or formation from WG) then you can give it the MFF and if you *also* have a legal unit from the Ork codex (Using a CAD or AD or codex detachment or formation) You *can* join the Mek with the MFF to the unit from the other detachment.

Using formations lets you do this without dealing with double-CAD

I personally love my Sons of Anarch'Ork (540 pts):

1 Biker warboss with PK, Stixx, BP
1 Biker Big Mek with KFF
1 Biker Painboy
3 Biker Nobz with PK
(and you can even push it to the limit with a PK on the Big Mek as well, when you have the points)

That is actually very scary for the opponent: fast, resilient and hitting hard (super heavy are not match for them, I got a Stompa and a Baneblade with them).

E5, lot of hp's, 4+ normal save, 5+ inv save, 5+ FnP, 17 PK attacks in assault.

Hell yeah, in the name of Gork and Mork!

Yeah, misunderstood you there, since some people actually do write army lists like that. They point to their big mek and tell you "that guy is from the supplement and has the super-kff", then point to their warboss "and that guy is from the codex and has a stikk" - in one CAD, of course.

The formation plan is kind of hard, the dread mob is the only formation with a big mek allowed to leave and join somewhere else.

Blitz Brigade full of Nobz? But thats more like 5 ok deathstars combined into one super deathstar.

Come to think of it, thats pretty much how the whole codex works.

A warboss might not be the best HQ out there, but damn can he kill Tactical marines and for not even 100 points to boot! Quantity over quality, I say.