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Walker rules indicate that they can only shoot things 45 degrees in front of them and knights can put their shield on certain sides. So my question is is the front of it where their face/shoulders/upper body is facing or where their legs/long side of base is facing? Can they pivot on their waist?

the way i have determined facing is if you look at the knight from the top the canopy of the knight is square shaped it works well to determine facing from that point. and walkers can only fire in a 40 degree ark from there front just like the rules say.

And they can't turn on their hips, the whole model must turn on the base?

The model can obviously turn, however if you do so it causes problems with determining facings so the rules dont take it into consideration.


However, limiting their fire arc to only a 45 degree front facing is a bit much. I get that the walker rules state as much, but it causes issues with the oblong base and terrain since walkers can pivot for free to aim at their target.

It's much easier to measure fire arc from the barrels of the weapons themselves.

Surely if the base is in terrain they must take a difficult terrain test as walkers count as infantry for moving right?

And if it is allowed to and does pivot is it's front armour the front of the shoulders/face or the front of the legs/base?

Actually It specifically states in the shooting section for walkers you measure distance and line of site from the mount point of the weapon and the weapon is allowed to swivel 45 degrees in horizontal vertical left or right direction. that is your ark of fire. I read that as you cannot shoot at a unit that is directly behind you since you cannot move the weapon to cover the arc of fire. So pretty much you must position your front face in the movement so you can cover the arc of fire. Now You do not measure armor face from the base the armor face is determined based on the hull. I have already said how I determine what that face is.

ChapertMasterRagnaValick wrote:
... and the weapon is allowed to swivel 45 degrees in horizontal vertical left or right direction.

Just as a point of clarification for the OP that's 45 degrees total, so the weapon can swivel 22.5 degrees to the left and 22.5 degrees to the right for 45 degrees total.

 Ghaz wrote:

ChapertMasterRagnaValick wrote:
... and the weapon is allowed to swivel 45 degrees in horizontal vertical left or right direction.

Just as a point of clarification for the OP that's 45 degrees total, so the weapon can swivel 22.5 degrees to the left and 22.5 degrees to the right for 45 degrees total.

Very good call I did not think of stating it like that.

Eihnlazer wrote:
The model can obviously turn, however if you do so it causes problems with determining facings so the rules dont take it into consideration.


However, limiting their fire arc to only a 45 degree front facing is a bit much. I get that the walker rules state as much, but it causes issues with the oblong base and terrain since walkers can pivot for free to aim at their target.

It's much easier to measure fire arc from the barrels of the weapons themselves.

Nope, rules are explicitly clear and specific, firing as a walker mean a total 45 degree arc off center.

And there are no longer any free pivot rules for walkers, that's a hold over of 6th Ed you need to remove from your brain.


When knights are played by the rules, 3d6 take the highest through difficult terrain and firing as a Walker with fixed 45 they aren't that hard to deal with.


It's when old rules and exceptions are made that are not RAW that they can get out of control.

Cool, thanks for clearing this up guys. its good to know they do require difficult terrain tests and can't just shoot at anything on the board cause the way my opponents have been playing them they've been stupidly overpowered!

Also what are your thoughts on declaring which side the inv shield is on? The kid at my club is 12 so I often give him benefit of the doubt as usually I don't hear him declare it. Whether he's said it or not I don't know, but he just says "well its obvious its going to be on x side cause that's where all your guys are"

At the start of your shooting phase, you ask. It's a mandatory declaration, so just ask them what facing it is. It's at the beginning of your shooting phase, before you've declared any shooting.

Cool, thanks for clearing all that up for me Zagman! Very helpful!

When someone is playing Knights, it's incumbent upon the owning player to determine facing of the shield during his opponent's shooting phase.
They should get in the habit of doing so; although friendly reminders are great and sporting, it's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player of his/her rules.

Eihnlazer wrote:
since walkers can pivot for free to aim at their target.

Just pointing out as it has been done before that Walkers no longer pivot freely to aim/shoot.

The must face in the direction they want to shoot at the end of your movement phase.

 Zagman wrote:
When knights are played by the rules, 3d6 take the highest through difficult terrain

I was also quite sure that they had special Rules against this, namely being a Super-Heavy Walker and the rules that confers. Will have to double check.

^ Nope. Unfortunately, super-heavy walkers still only get regular move through cover (so 3D6, take the highest).
However, they don't get the penalty for charging into cover.

 BlackTalos wrote:


The must face in the direction they want to shoot at the end of your movement phase.

 Zagman wrote:
When knights are played by the rules, 3d6 take the highest through difficult terrain

I was also quite sure that they had special Rules against this, namely being a Super-Heavy Walker and the rules that confers. Will have to double check.

Double check all you want, no such rules exist and the RAW is extremely clear.

Super Heavy Walkers have a 12" move, move like Walkers with move through cover in difficult terrain.

Walkers move 2d6 take the highest through difficult terrain. Move through Cover grants an extra d6, so they move 3d6" take the highest through cover. There exists no such exception for units with a 12" base move, that was a 5th? edition rule holdover and houserule some are using to vastly increase the power of the Knight.

 House Griffith wrote:
it's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player of his/her rules.

Yeah, knowingly skipping a mandatory action is totally not cheating on your part.

 House Griffith wrote:
..., it's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player of his/her rules.

It's the responsibility of both players to play by the rules. There is no 'These are my rules, and those are your rules'... just the rules of the game.

It's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player to do optional things. It is the opponent's responsibility to make sure that mandatory things happen, because the rules say that those things have to happen.

 insaniak wrote:

 House Griffith wrote:
..., it's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player of his/her rules.

It's the responsibility of both players to play by the rules. There is no 'These are my rules, and those are your rules'... just the rules of the game.

It's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player to do optional things. It is the opponent's responsibility to make sure that mandatory things happen, because the rules say that those things have to happen.

Just for clarification, what (for you) is mandatory and what is optional?

I guess the question is if the owning player does NOT state where his shield is then tough luck? Or are you saying since it is mandatory to call out where his shield is before shooting we have to back track in the game?

osirisx69 wrote:
Or are you saying since it is mandatory to call out where his shield is before shooting we have to back track in the game?

That. You shouldn't progress your shooting phase until he's declared where his shield is.

You forget to shoot with that unit of Termagants? Tough luck. You forgot to roll Instinctive Behavior? Rollback if possible. You forgot declare your shield? Do it before I start shooting.

osirisx69 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 House Griffith wrote:
..., it's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player of his/her rules.

It's the responsibility of both players to play by the rules. There is no 'These are my rules, and those are your rules'... just the rules of the game.

It's not the opponent's responsibility to remind the owning player to do optional things. It is the opponent's responsibility to make sure that mandatory things happen, because the rules say that those things have to happen.

Just for clarification, what (for you) is mandatory and what is optional?

I guess the question is if the owning player does NOT state where his shield is then tough luck? Or are you saying since it is mandatory to call out where his shield is before shooting we have to back track in the game?

The things that say must are mandatory, the things that say may are optional.

E.G if your opponent forgets to shoot with his Devastator unit, you do not have to remind him because: "models armed with ranged weapons can be nominated to make shooting attacks." (Note it says they can be nominated, not must be nominated. The Shooting Phase chapter, Nominate a unit to shoot section).

However you have to remind your opponent about things like the Snap Shot rule for that same Devastator unit if they are firing their heavy weapons after they have moved. (Provided they need to do so, barring relentless Et. Al. and they forget that the snap shot rule applies to that unit). "If a model carrying a Heavy weapon moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots." (Weapons chapter, Heavy Weapons section).

Or a unit that makes a run move and moves through dangerous terrain and forgets to take their test, you need to remind them of this if they forget because: "Running movement is not slowed by difficult terrain but models running through dangerous terrain must test as normal." (The Shooting Phase chapter, Run section).

The rules dictate optional and mandatory actions through the wording of the specific rule.

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Or are you saying since it is mandatory to call out where his shield is before shooting we have to back track in the game?

That. You shouldn't progress your shooting phase until he's declared where his shield is.

You forget to shoot with that unit of Termagants? Tough luck. You forgot to roll Instinctive Behavior? Rollback if possible. You forgot declare your shield? Do it before I start shooting.

Ah okay and what if I don't? Lets say you already shot ? Roll back? or is it on you to stop your shooting and ask me where my shield is?

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Or are you saying since it is mandatory to call out where his shield is before shooting we have to back track in the game?

That. You shouldn't progress your shooting phase until he's declared where his shield is.

You forget to shoot with that unit of Termagants? Tough luck. You forgot to roll Instinctive Behavior? Rollback if possible. You forgot declare your shield? Do it before I start shooting.

Ah okay and what if I don't? Lets say you already shot ? Roll back? or is it on you to stop your shooting and ask me where my shield is?

It's on both of you to remember the shield. If both of you forget, roll back and declare the shield, then let him re-direct his fire if he wants.
You can't just opt to skip it - it's a mandatory action. Skipping it is tantamount to cheating.

osirisx69 wrote:
Ah okay and what if I don't? Lets say you already shot ? Roll back? or is it on you to stop your shooting and ask me where my shield is?

Then just like if you forgot to roll for Reserves, or Night Fight, or forgot that your unit shot Rapid Fire weapons and so shouldn't have charged, you have both messed up and will have to sort out between the two of you what to do about it in order for the game to continue.