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Recently I've been debtaring with my friend the comparison of ork boy squad upgades being the shoota, base upgrades and 'eavy armour. A base ork being 6 points is a tough CC tarpit when fielded in numbers but has near useless shooting. Shootas however give the Boyz a much better ability to shoot and overwatch effectively with their large number of shots. Finally 'eavy armour is the most expensive and decent upgrade being that a 4+ save is useful but once ap 4 and lower get into the mix its completely useless. So what do you guys think? Has anyone had good or situational combos of these upgrades that have worked well? Any insight would help

I cannot give you any advice on 'eavy armors, as I never played them on Boyz.

Regarding the sluggas/shootas debate, I usually play Shootas if footslogging (more time to shoot before getting - if getting - in cc), and Sluggas if in a vehicle (no time to shoot).

The best upgrade for both of them is and stay the Nob PK/BP Beside that, I don't waste points in RL or BS.

IMO, Boyz must to be kept simple, otherwise you lose their biggest strenght: their cost.

'eavy armor is a must for truckboyz and wagonboyz. The only time your mounted boyz don't need armor is when there's a tanky character in the squad. Lukky stix megaboss doesn't need a 4+ retinue cause he's tanking everything other than ap2 stuff.

Shootaboyz vs Sluggaboyz is situational. When i run footsloggas, my centerpiece squad of 30 boyz with a painboy are wielsing sluggas + choppas while squads of 20 are shootaboyzwith rokkits.

Wagonboyz can be both - that's for sure. Sometimes it's better to be shooty, sometimes choppy. But truckboyz are almost alwayz better off as choppaboyz. Cause this couple extra wounds in CC will be deciding.

Actually, I'd scratch the wagonboyz part. 'eavy armor for the entire unit is 80 points, a doc including gretchin tax is 79 (50+35 minus 6 for the boyz you're leaving at home for him) and you get some gretchin in the deal. There is no reason to get 4+ armor which is ignored by everyone and their dog when you could have FNP instead.

 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, I'd scratch the wagonboyz part. 'eavy armor for the entire unit is 80 points, a doc including gretchin tax is 79 (50+35 minus 6 for the boyz you're leaving at home for him) and you get some gretchin in the deal. There is no reason to get 4+ armor which is ignored by everyone and their dog when you could have FNP instead.

Who's prohibiting you to have both. Wagon's expensive by itself and i prefer the insides to be as hardy as possible to justify the delivery cost.

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, I'd scratch the wagonboyz part. 'eavy armor for the entire unit is 80 points, a doc including gretchin tax is 79 (50+35 minus 6 for the boyz you're leaving at home for him) and you get some gretchin in the deal. There is no reason to get 4+ armor which is ignored by everyone and their dog when you could have FNP instead.

Who's prohibiting you to have both. Wagon's expensive by itself and i prefer the insides to be as hardy as possible to justify the delivery cost.

Costs, mate. I'd rather spend all those points on a couple more bikers. Or tankbustas. Or meganobz. After all, my boys aren't doing the heavy lifting for me anymore - It's my elites and FAs who bear the brunt of the fight now, boyz coming in as distractions, support, or late-game objective grabbing thanks to OS.

With boys, I want numbers before anything else, so I tend to keep them cheap. In the end, 'eavy armor would only ward off vehicle explosions and brawl results on the ork morale table which, having played with the new 'dex for a while now, don't come across as often as I initially thought.

76 points per mob is. You could just spend those points on yet another pain boy for another unit. Or you could just get a fourth wagon full of boyz instead of equipping three wagons with 'eavy armor.

On top of that, half the weapons in the game ignore that save, and it will fail half time you're actually allowed to use it. It will not protect you when fighting monstrous creatures, any sort of character, terminators, grey knights, khorne daemons and whatnot.

If you want protection for a mob, there is the KFF, the pain boy and 'eavy armor. 'eavy armor is both the worst and the most expensive. You don't buy it for the same reason you don't buy combi-rokkits. They make the unit you're buying them for better, but it makes your army in total worse due to being a waste of points.

Boys with FNP draw big gun attention as it is anyway because people want to deny the FNP. Well, what the hell is S8+ and doesnt have AP4 or better? Orks have a couple, but theyre random strength.

If you have a MA boss in there and the random challenge mek youre only buying 16 boys (2 for MA boss, 1 for painboy, 1 for mek = 20slots). Thats technically only 64pts to add heavy armor, but the thing is you wont get it 9/10 of the time and that could easily translate to 3 more warbikers, extra mek gunz, or something else along those lines.
I was running both for a few games and stopped with the armor upgrade because out of 6 games doing a wagon list, my warboss unit's boyz never got their 4+ armor, only the FNP if it wasnt S8+ hitting them. And cover if they had any obviously.

Its viable for boyz without a painboy/boss because its not that expensive and adds a lot of survivability. But theyre not anywhere NEAR as big a threat, so odds are they'll get to keep their armor against most attacks.

Ive said it in many threads before i'll say it again: Dont paint an even larger bullseye on a unit's head that already has one. Unless its Warbikers + Painboy, anything in our army with a HUGE bullseye over their noggins will fall reeeaaaalllly fast, and technically the bikers will too but not as easy. Why dump points onto a unit that only adds a minor benefit for the cost, but makes them an even better investment for the opponent to remove since they cost more?

I only play Unbound armies so any Mob will always have a BikerPainboy attached. As mentioned above, anyone wasting Str 8+ shots on my Boyz is fine by me. Otherwise BikerPainboy will always be useful.

Footsloggin' Boyz should be equipped with shootas (or there should be a metric ton of them all with Slugga/Choppa).

Trukk boyz should be Slugga/Choppa, maybe 'Ard Boyz depending on your point of view. They can be good but a cheap Trukk full of Slugga Boyz can make light work of most walkers and give MC's a run for their money, but with the +4 point per model for Eavy Arrmour you start worrying about them dying - not what Trukk Boyz are for.

Boyz in a Battlewagon work very well as either Shoota or Slugga, depends what flavour your after. Personally I like to run one BW with Sluggas and another with Shootas. In the case of a Shoota Wagon, buy lots of Big Shootas on the unit and the vehicle for synergy.

Shoota Boyz benefit from either Rokkit Launcha or Big Shoota (I prefer the latter)

Big units of Slugga Boyz benefit greatly from an attached Warboss. Mega Armour Warboss with Lukky Stick is amazing, or 'Eavy Armour Warboss to save points and still dish out pain. Rolling Ld tests on Ld 9 rather than 7 is fantastic (or not rolling them at all if you like the Big Bosspole from the Ghazghkull supplement.

A Boss Nob with Bosspole is essential for any unit of Boyz (except maybe Wagon Shootas) and Slugga Boyz and footslogging boyz appreciate a Power Klaw.

Just my 2 cents.

I use a 18 choppa boy wagon mob with both a warboss and a painboy, and I can tell you that if the dice favor you they can be a pain to remove. they have a lot of attacks and the Warboss dealing with anything to heavy means they can take down things real quick!

but yea, they can die just as easily when faced with ap4 and better. once had a game where a wolf priest wittled down a 17 man squad because I couldn't make FnP ( and that fether had endurence and kept saving my powerclaw attacks)

Personally I run shoot as in my footslogging Orks list. In big groups with FNP they can do some damage

 DatNobGit wrote:
Personally I run shoot as in my footslogging Orks list. In big groups with FNP they can do some damage

Aye
29 Shootas + Nob PK BP + Painboy are evil

'eavy armor on your wagonboyz is not something to underestimate. The wagon itself costs ~ 130 pts. And you do want the insides to be sturdy enough to justify the points spent on delivery. Besides, not all the wagonboyz are gona have a painboss. Even with a painboss, i find 'eavy armor worth it. It's a wrong assumption that 'half the weapons ignore 4+ armor'. Maybe half the weapon profiles ignore it but the opponent's army does not contain explictly of heavy flamer, assault cannon and heavy-bolter shooters.

You might want to skip 'eavy armor to get more stuff in other places and there's nothing bad in it - you'll get other profits, but don't underestimate it. I'd say it's definitely not worth the points to equip footslogas with 'eavy armor but mounted 'eavy boyz are worth their points.

Answer is easy:

Are they footslogging? No zoggin' way. The main thing thatll kill them is blasts, and most are AP4 or better.

Are they truckboyz? Maybe. Depends if you want a few reliable trucks or more but less reliable trucks. User preference there, I think.

Are they wagonboyz? Might as well. You've already bought em a wagon and it'd be a shame if they all died in its explosion.