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Eldar 1850
Avatar Warlord
5 Dragons in Serpent
7 Scorpions in serpent outflank
2 Windrider squads in reserve
1 crimson hunter exarch
5 Warp spiders deep strike
1 Wraithknight with Suncannon+Scatter Laser
2 Wraithlords with scatter laser+Bright lance

The idea is that I start with some tough units on the table to take some punishment and draw enemy fire before reserves arrive and start killing stuff from behind. So far this list has proven to be way more successful than I thought when I made it! Its not made for tournaments or heavily competitive games but it has proven that it can stand up to some really nasty stuff.

So using that list as my basis what would you propose to make able to go toe to toe against the big boys ?

Weakness I have noticed so far:
1) No psyckers. A heavy psychic army would probably decimate me, I haven't played against grey knight yet so I haven't tested it against someone with 15+ WC
2) Reliance on heavy T as a defense mechanism. Poison is killing me.
3) Scorpions are too binary. At some games they excel while totally failing in others. No middle ground there!
4) Not much anti air. I got the Crimson hunter there just for that reason but against a Necron army with 6+ Flyers there is not much I can do.

Hi there.

First off, I've seen people's mathhammer that the SL on large Wraiths is not worth having. Take 2 of the same , as SL isn't that great to get TL. 2 big guns hitting on 3+ is better than 1 at 3+ with reroll.
Are the WS fitted with SL and chin-Cannon? That's your AA, to help out the CH. S6 isn't' much, but having TL S7 is nice against fliers.
Does the Scorpion squad have the power fist? He's great, and the S6 is usually enough to take on an enemy HQ.

I use the SC on the wraithknight to TL the suncannon, as far as taking it on the wraithlords I will try them with 2 Bright lances and see what happens.
The serpents are fitted as you said, SL and cannon, it helps some against AA as far as I have seen so far need to try them against a heavy flyer army.
The scorpion has the powerfist ofc and having a wave serpent pop up from behind enemy lines usually works great. its just that scorpions are amazing against some armies and useless against others, I was thinking of replacing them with something more consistent but I cant find anything to fill their slot. I was thinking a second squad of fire dragons maybe?

Against a heavy flyer army, kill everything that isn't flying. Flyers can't score objectives, so they aren't scoring points in most missions.

opinions: you are investing 1/3 of your points in wraith models. Play the Iyanden supplement. Make the avatar 2 spirit seers, and the wraith knight your warlord. He can get a 6+ FNP for units in a 12" bubble as a warlord trait.

I really like wraith units the models are just amazing
I should but isn't the Wraithseer a FW model ?

Wraithseer is FW, yeah, but the Spiritseer is another type of Farseer.
The Spiritseer is an overpowered Warlock, with buffs for Wraith units.

My problem is that with 3T they just die. Horribly.
IN LOTS OF PAIN!

In my opinion you shouldn't take the wraithknight as the the Wraithlord can do the same job but much cheaper

The Wraithlord doesn't get an Invil.
But yeah, you can get 2 WLs for the price of a WK.

IMO it depends on what you want the WK or the WL to do. The WK is a Jump MC, the WLs move a meager 6" each turn. So except if used as a linebreaker/counter-assault unit you will see them in cc. In any other situation the opponent will just make sure he avoids the WL. And just as a gun carriage for 2 heavy weapons it is too expensive and prone to get killed. You can get your 2 weapons on better options. It could look different if the rest of your list benefits from two additional slow MCs.

Question: why run the Scorpions in a WS? Just to infiltrate it? Or to get the Scorpions close to the target? What is your experience with that? Cause I feel it isn't worth unloading them and get one turn of fire at them before they assault. I rather try to infiltrate them alone out of sight 12" or in cover 18" with LOS.

Serpent and outfiank, this is the wrong concept.
The Scorpions can charge in round 3 or 4, not earliers, and they are usually not a big threat.
But more importantly, all Serpents should contribute to your mobile gun line from turn 1 on.

If you're worried about anti-air, take an ADL with icarus lascannon. Stick your avatar on the gun. Most unfair versus fliers . Fill the ADL with guardians, place on an objective

In general the scorpions are outflanking, and when they arrive,disembark, use the serpent as cover and then assault. I am using them mostly to kill stuff that is camped on the other side of the table and shoots me devastator style.

I regularly run a wraithlord with twin lances twin flamers and sword and he has been great every game. People nearly always forget the flamers. Double flame an infantry unit then charge. And in previous turns whilst walking to get into charge rage you've got some serious anti armour shots.

I do like my wrist-flamers.
I've often though that a sword and flamers WL running around the back way might be good. But those heavy weapons are the best use for one.

So why choose? You can get both. I've had a lot of success with x2 bright lance Wraith Lords, so much so that I'm going to add an Avatar for them to hang out with. I like your style!

My list plays a little differently though, because I run a bunch of guardian squads with warlocks, and only have one wave serpent to transport the wraithguard where they need to go. How effective has the Crimson Hunter been for you? I've been considering adding one in just because as it stands my list is woefully unprepared for flyers.

The main reason I use the hunter is anti air but 4times S8 AP2 lasors with BS5 can be scary against everything. Also the vector dancer ability is just awesome! You can easily position him behind the enemy and start blasting from a relatively safe position.

I tried 2 BL on my wraithlords and it worked great! I will make that a permanent change I think.

Look a lot like the list I've started running. Only difference really is that I have guardians, wraithguard and a mini jetseer council instead of the aspects that you have.

I like the suggestion for you of using the iyanden craftworld. I just started playing it and pretty much just for the wraithforge stone which is awesome to make your wraith constructs even harder to kill. Also I don't believe you have to have a spiritseer to play iyanden as long as you have the minimum amount of regular eldar troops.

 humanas wrote:
The main reason I use the hunter is anti air but 4times S8 AP2 lasors with BS5 can be scary against everything. Also the vector dancer ability is just awesome! You can easily position him behind the enemy and start blasting from a relatively safe position.

I tried 2 BL on my wraithlords and it worked great! I will make that a permanent change I think.

Yeah, I like bright lances a lot. You suffer a bit from lack of volume of fire, but they're just really powerful. Of course you do have those games when 7+ bright lance shots completely fail to scratch the paint on a rhino...