Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, so I'm looking at a flyer for some AA and I see there is either the RW Jetfighter or the Dark Talon. Has anyone had any experience on one or the other or have an opinion on them? I like the jetfighter, but am hesitant about the one use only. Side note, why don't Whirlwinds have skyfire?

I play ultra marines, but I've heard from my friends that play DA that both of those models aren't good. Whirlwinds don't have skyfire because they came out before flyers, this is why they came out with the stalker/ hunter. Aegis defense line is always a good AA for only 100 points, but if you want to inflict some aerial damage of your own then possibly use the space marine formation that has 1 storm raven and 2 storm talons

That's disappointing. I really want to stay true to my DA roots, but I feel like SM are stronger in every way, and that makes my Angels cry :/

 jreilly89 wrote:
That's disappointing. I really want to stay true to my DA roots, but I feel like SM are stronger in every way, and that makes my Angels cry :/

Take some forge world. We all know the DA are all about their relics, a fire raptor would be WAY better than the codex fliers.

 Robisagg wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
That's disappointing. I really want to stay true to my DA roots, but I feel like SM are stronger in every way, and that makes my Angels cry :/

Take some forge world. We all know the DA are all about their relics, a fire raptor would be WAY better than the codex fliers.

Are the rules included with the model?

My buddy plays DA and is a fanatic (in a good way) about determining efficiency and quality of models for their points. He says the DA flyers are straight up never worth fielding. And that saddens him greatly 'cause he thinks they're pretty.

Fire Raptor is a win, no idea about rules inclusion though.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Robisagg wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
That's disappointing. I really want to stay true to my DA roots, but I feel like SM are stronger in every way, and that makes my Angels cry :/

Take some forge world. We all know the DA are all about their relics, a fire raptor would be WAY better than the codex fliers.

Are the rules included with the model?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/fire-raptor.pdf

Experimental rules right here!

Edit-

Might also be worth it to get an Aegis line. Combat squad with a Flakk ML and an Aegis is a cheap way of getting solid anti air

The Nephlim Jetfighter is one of the very worst units in the game. The Darktalon is trolltacular (rift cannon + statis bombs will totally gimp an enemy unit), but ultimately overcosted for what it does.

The Fire Raptor is three times the flier for only a few more points. Who cares if the rules are experimental, Dark Angels need all the help they can get in the flyer department.

Mrk V Mortis dreadnought FTW, Dark Angels can take them in the Elite slot (see rules in the latest IA 2 Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes), for 125pts you get a dual TLAC dread with Skyfire and Interceptor when static.

Check with your friends before you pick up an expensive FW unit with experimental rules as your only source of AA. There are some non-experamental FW AA units IIRC. The Whirlwind Hyperios? I don’t own any of the FW books, so someone else can give you specifics, but there are other options if you are going that route.

I’ve never seen someone field the DA flyers. They are pretty seriously overcosted. Nice looking birds though. With mild converting work you could probably work one into a counts-as stormtalon and fly in some allies. Or the 2 talon, 1 raven formation. Paint them up as a DA successor chapter, but use the SM rules. The Unforgiven are known to work well together, so no shame in using allies.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
Mrk V Mortis dreadnought FTW, Dark Angels can take them in the Elite slot (see rules in the latest IA 2 Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes), for 125pts you get a dual TLAC dread with Skyfire and Interceptor when static.

This ^

They do good works for me when I play a mixed-wing DA force, because as mentioned by pretty much everyone here, DA flyers are not actual AA

 Nevelon wrote:
I’ve never seen someone field the DA flyers. They are pretty seriously overcosted. Nice looking birds though. With mild converting work you could probably work one into a counts-as stormtalon and fly in some allies. Or the 2 talon, 1 raven formation. Paint them up as a DA successor chapter, but use the SM rules. The Unforgiven are known to work well together, so no shame in using allies.

Sorry, but no thanks. I'd rather lose than play fake DA :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the Aegis Defence Line seems the way to go. Are the rules only in the SM codex?

ADLs are in stronghold assault. Along with the rest of the fortifications these days.

Great, another codex. Seriously GW, killing me

 jreilly89 wrote:
Great, another codex. Seriously GW, killing me

If you have your 6th edition rulebook, the Aegis rules are in there, along with the skyshield and bastion. Still useable as all the point costs haven't changed.

-edit-

If you dont, here's one starting at 99 cents:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40K-6th-Edition-Mini-rulebook-/231329843136?pt=Games_US&hash=item35dc5547c0

I know the Nephilim sucks versus other flying vehicles, but how do you guys think they do against Flyrants and Flying DPs?

If anything, it's even worse against Flyrants and Daemon Princes. AP4 weapons vs 3+ armor. You end up doing less than 1 wound/turn.

I suppose it would be okay against the harpy and hive crone (I think they have 4+ armor?)

Well thats disappointing. I wills till run it as I love the idea of ground support and the model is too cool to pass up, but I'm saddened its such a good looking, bad playing flyer

I realize I'm in the minority here, but I've had good experiences when I've fielded the neph. It's not the perfect unit, but it's not unusable. I use the AMB and it reliably hurts low armor viehicles and light infantry. It does slightly less shooting than flyrant.

Air targets you're looking at 5 Str 6 hits and 3 Str 5 hits.
T5: ~5 AP4 wounds
T6/AV10: ~3.5 wounds/hull points
T7/AV11: ~2 wounds/hull points.
T8/AV12: =(

So it will drop or force a jink on tau flyers, storm talons, necron flyers, eldar and dark eldar fighters in one round of shooting on average. Crones and harpies face the same problem. Heldrakes, storm ravens and any FMC with 3+ armor will give it trouble. With the hive tyrant, you're at least forcing a grounding check.

Or you could just double down on black knights and use them as AA. Twin linking will get you some hits in a pinch.

True, but BK are so expensive. Besides, I know it can win, but I don't want to run a full bike army. I feel like the Nephilim is underrated for what it does. Don't get me wrong, the down grade on the AMB versus its normal version is disappointing, but I feel like my meta isn't that WAAC that I could use it with a good amount of success.

I feel like if they gave the Niph Vector Dancer it would be both worth its points and perform well as an interceptor (like it is intended).

What is that? I also feel that if they gave it back Missile Lock and upgraded its missiles to at least on par with Hellstrike or Blood missiles, it would do better

 Robisagg wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Robisagg wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
That's disappointing. I really want to stay true to my DA roots, but I feel like SM are stronger in every way, and that makes my Angels cry :/

Take some forge world. We all know the DA are all about their relics, a fire raptor would be WAY better than the codex fliers.

Are the rules included with the model?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/fire-raptor.pdf

Experimental rules right here!

Edit-

Might also be worth it to get an Aegis line. Combat squad with a Flakk ML and an Aegis is a cheap way of getting solid anti air

Those rules aren't used anymore (unless you're CSM). The Imperial Armour 2: Space Marines (volume 2) book has the final rules regarding Fire Raptor for SM, DA, SW, BA and other SM flavours.

 jreilly89 wrote:
What is that? I also feel that if they gave it back Missile Lock and upgraded its missiles to at least on par with Hellstrike or Blood missiles, it would do better

It allows the flier to make another pivot, after moving, up to 90˚.

And you're absolutely right about the missiles. They leave so much to be desired.

Also, do you think I should do the standard black, or I was thinking of doing DA green?

I think it would look better in black myself.