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OK, so I have a tourney coming up and I am toying with the idea of going with a SM/LotD list, with SM as primary detachment and LotD as allies.

Chap. Tacs - Iron Hands

PRIMARY CAD

HQ Chapter Master, Armour Indomitus, 190pts
HQ Libby, Lvl 2, 90pts
NA Command Sqd (inc. above CM & Libby), 2x combiflamer, 2x Storm Shield 140pts

TP Scouts, 55pts
TP Scouts, 55pts

EL Sternguard x10, 2x combiplasma, 2x combimelta, drop pod 305pts
EL LotD, combimelta, melta, multimelta 155pts
EL LotD, combimelta, melta, multimelta 155pts

ALLIES

LotD Detachment

EL LotD, combiflamer, flamer, hvy flamer 150pts
EL LotD, combiflamer, flamer, hvy flamer 150pts
EL LotD, combiplasma, plasma, Plasmacannon 165pts
EL LotD, flamer, hvy bolter 140pts

Plan would be for HQ squad to hunker down, turbocharge the Armour Indomitus and try not to get wiped first turn, while the orbital bombardment probably scatters and kills my sternguard. Scouts infiltrate and try to draw some attention/fire away from the HQ squad, while the sternies alpha strike into the back line and make trouble, but probably not making it past turn two. The LotD arrive turn two onwards and start camping on objectives/hitting specific threats on the board.

Three questions though;
1) LotD are scoring units, right? The codex suggests only if named as the primary detachment, but 7th BRB would say they do as allies or primary.
2) The PC in one of the LotD units, can it fire and move? I know Blast couldn’t if snap firing, but ‘slow and relentless’ means the unit can fire as if stationary when moving, not just snap fire?
3) I think this list is in keeping with the fluff, but it could also be interpreted as a bit cheesy – is this likely to get me roundly booed out of the tourney by irate opponents?

Correct. This is a holdover to when *only* troops were scoring.

1) It's not been updated yet; some TOs may treat "makes you scoring" as "gives you objective secured", but that's a house rule (not a bad one, though).

2) Relentless units can indeed move and fire plasma cannons. The legion also give it ignore cover, as well, making the plasma cannon one of the best things you can give the unit (the multimelta is the other).

3) It's fine storyline wise - the legion turn up to help beleaguered forces. If I wanted to be extra fluffy, I'd avoid the drop pod - the whole point is that they're outnumbered, trapped and no help is coming, and then suddenly Flaming Space Marine Death Metal Band decides to intervene.

If using Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines), I would turn the sternguard into a tactical squad and possibly the scouts into another one. That gives you a solid block that (shouldn't) be exterminated turn 1 if you go to ground in cover. More importantly, it's canonical that an ultramarines force was surrounded and the legion saved them. This is extra good as the legion was cannonically led by Tigurius - who is a superb warlord for this force because (a) he stands good odds of getting invisibility off to protect one unit from anything but snap shots, and (b) he gives you a critical reserve reroll - meaning the legion turns up on a 3+ with a reroll - meaning you should get 5-6 squads turn up at once, enough for a real game-changing deep strike assault.

Recommendations on the legion themselves?
Avoid flamers and heavy flamers. Your shots already ignore cover, and you can't fire overwatch. That's two of the biggest advantages of flamer weapons thrown straight out of the window. Yes, you get a scatter reroll, so in theory you can use the template weapon more effectively but even with that reroll do you really plan on deep striking within 3-4" of an enemy? If not, spending those points on more legionnaires with rapid-firing flaming bolters is probably better.

I'd make sure each non-plasma unit has a multimelta. Flaming multimeltas are lethal antitank and your main reach-out-and-touch-someone power.

I might consider arming at least one unit for close quarters. 4 squads of 5 and one of 10 gives you a natural place to put a power fist and the Animus Malorem - you'd be surprised how nasty such a unit can be.

Great, thanks for the advice – like the idea of only melta/plasma LotD squads, as well as a CC version with more models and Animus Malorem (cant quite afford the PF though!) – see updated list below.

Also like the idea of keeping it more fluffy and getting rid of the Sternies - which frees up some points and a slot for……you guessed it, another LotD Squad

For the beleaguered allies, having Ultramarines with Tiggy is a great idea – have gone for him and a Dev squad (x4 LC) behind an aegis line with Icarus LC. Also gone for a comms relay as Tiggys gift of prescience only applies to the three LotD units in his detachment – comms relay should give reserve reroll for all the LotD units.

So, providing tiggy gets the right powers, plan would be for invisible/storm of fire/signum enhanced Icarus (2++ to hit) and 4 x LC (3++ to hit) to bang away at something big or intercept a flyer, while the scouts hit the deck and hope nobody has a blast weapon. Turn two the bulk of the LotD arrive, while Tiggy Gates out to join up with the LotD CC squad, buffs them to eternity, and proceeds to gate them around the park chewing up anything they fancy - ha ha, teleporting LotD CC blob + Tiggy!? Any takers?!?

I struggle to think of any lists that this might struggle against – any suggestions?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops, List below

PRIMARY CAD

HQ
Tiggy, 165pts

TROOPS
Scouts, camo cloaks 65pts
Scouts, camo cloaks 65pts

HEAVY
DEV Squad, extra marine (for Icarus) 4xLC 164pts

ELITES
LotD, combimelta, melta, multimelta 155pts
LotD, combimelta, melta, multimelta 155pts
LotD, combiplasma, plasma, Plasmacannon 165pts

ALLIES

LotD Detachment

ELITES
LotD, combiplasma, plasma, Plasmacannon 165pts
LotD, multimelta 135pts
LotD, Plasmacannon 140pts
LotD, 10 man squad, Animus Malorem 280pts

Aegis, Icarus, Comms relay 95pts

TOTAL 1749 pts

I don't like the rev squad with the Icarus, you're going to end up snap shooting weather you shoot at a flyer or not. Best to take a storm talon for AA or just ignore it.

Stronghold Assault, page 18, "Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below." So you have to choose between the Icarus Lascannon and the Comms Relay.

Epartalis wrote:I don't like the rev squad with the Icarus, you're going to end up snap shooting weather you shoot at a flyer or not. Best to take a storm talon for AA or just ignore it.

1 normal/4 snap shot LC at a flier isn't so bad, especially as the snaps can be rerolled by the ultras dev. doctrine for a turn. By reverse, having an extra snap shooting LC joining in with the 4xLC from the devs rather than the extra marine's bolter is also preferable at range imo.

Out of interest though, if the Dev squad shoots at another target without the Icarus, can the Icarus still go after a different arriving reserve unit, or is it now all commited to the same target unit?

ForeverARookie wrote:Stronghold Assault, page 18, "Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below." So you have to choose between the Icarus Lascannon and the Comms Relay.

Stronghold Assault, start of Battlefield Debris section "battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right." so I can purchase the comms relay as stand alone debris and just place it near the aegis line.

 Iapedus wrote:
Stronghold Assault, start of Battlefield Debris section "battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right." so I can purchase the comms relay as stand alone debris and just place it near the aegis line.

Firstly, the Combined Arms Detachment gives you one Fortification slot. The Legion of the Damned detachment only has 1-4 Elite Slots, no Fortification. And the Legion of the Damned can't take a Combined Arms Detachment of their own because they lack the required HQ and Troops. So in this Battleforged list you can only have 1 Fortification.

Secondly, I argued your position regarding a lone Comms Relay in a debate earlier today and lost. Here is the argument I couldn't counter.

 Unholyllama wrote:
Looking over the book in front of me....

My interpretation is that the items listed under the Battlefield Debris section are ALL special rules associated with upgrades or pieces of fortifications.

Ammo Dump, Barricades/Walls, Gun Emplacements, Tanglewire, Tank Traps, and Comms Relays are upgrades (as defined on the previous page under the Obstacles and Battlements & Battlefield upgrade subsections).

The Defense Line, Imperial Statuary, and Wreckage/Rubble are all part of 2 different fortification entries - the Aegis Defense Line and the Honoured Imperium (which consists of an Imperial Statuary and 2 pieces of of Rubble).

So the summary of the Battlefield Debris is accurate in that some elements listed in this section ARE upgrades while others are directly part of a fortification.

It's not saying you can take upgrades as fortification in and of themselves, it's saying some of the things listed in the section are upgrades and some are actual pieces of fortification datasheets found later in the book.

So the Sentence is just a description of what's on the page, not a new rule regarding them.

ForeverARookie wrote:
Firstly, the Combined Arms Detachment gives you one Fortification slot.

Ah, of course - dumb mistake to make

 Unholyllama wrote:
Looking over the book in front of me....

My interpretation is that the items listed under the Battlefield Debris section are ALL special rules associated with upgrades or pieces of fortifications.

Ammo Dump, Barricades/Walls, Gun Emplacements, Tanglewire, Tank Traps, and Comms Relays are upgrades (as defined on the previous page under the Obstacles and Battlements & Battlefield upgrade subsections).

The Defense Line, Imperial Statuary, and Wreckage/Rubble are all part of 2 different fortification entries - the Aegis Defense Line and the Honoured Imperium (which consists of an Imperial Statuary and 2 pieces of of Rubble).

So the summary of the Battlefield Debris is accurate in that some elements listed in this section ARE upgrades while others are directly part of a fortification.

It's not saying you can take upgrades as fortification in and of themselves, it's saying some of the things listed in the section are upgrades and some are actual pieces of fortification datasheets found later in the book.

Ha ha, you are right, this is very hard to argue against. The more you read the stronghold rules, the more confusing it gets (despite the errata saying pretty much ignore half the book). Guess I will be going with just the comms relay then and leaving AA to chance.....