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I will be playing against against a tau army. He brings 3 riptides to every battle along with some rail gun battlesuits, 2 other units of battle suits, a commander in battle suit and then a bunch of fire warrior squads and usually no tanks. I haven't gone up against this army before so I'm not sure how many marker lights he is brings. Seeing as how he brings 3 riptides I think its a good guess that he brings as many marker lights as he can.

here's the army I was thinking of bringing, all advise is appreciated as I have never battled tau before.

illic nightspear 140pts

spiritseer 70pts

8 striking scorpions
1 exarch: scorpions claw, monster hunter 198pts (9 models total)
(hopefully these guys will either take a alot of fire with their 3+ armor/ cover saves away from the rest of my army while it advances, I also hope they are ignored and then go kick but in combat. Worst case scenario is the tau player has a way to wipe them off the table without focussing too much firepower on them.)

8 dire avengers 104 pts
waveserpent: TL scatter laser, shuriken cannon 130pts

5x wraithguard: d-scythes 210pts
waveserpent: TL scatter laser, shuriken cannon 130pts

Crimson Hunter Exarch: marksman's eye 190pts

7 dark reapers
1 exarch: fast shot, EML

warwalker: scatter laser, starcannon, starengines, ghostwalk matrix 95pts
(I would take more of these guys but I only have one, which means I also don't have any doubles of weapons. With this load out though I figured he could pose a threat to nearly anything while hopefully staying behind LOS blocking terrain)

wraithknight: suncannon, scattershield, scatter laser 300pts

total 1852pts

Note that I didn't give anything holofields because I'm expecting him to bypass all my cover saves. I've never played tau so is this a reasonable assumption? Or should I find a way to fit the holofields in?

What do you think? Do I stand a chance?

Illic isn't the most competitive HQ. An Autarch would help your Crimson Hunter and outflanking warwalker out, a farseer would help your wraithknight and Reapers out.

If you're not against vehicles, make sure your crimson hunter is taking starcannons, not bright lances. You didn't specify which it was taking.

Striking Scorpions might not be your best bet. it will be very difficult for them to catch any riptides or crisis suits in close combat because of their jet pack moves. Perhaps focus more on shooting.

A single war walker won't be very useful, especially since Tau have weapons that don't require line of sight. You would be better off buying more, or just not taking this guy at all.

Reapers are okay against Tau, just be careful that an ion accelerator riptide doesn't instantly kill the entire squad.

The wraithknight will be a fairly high priority target. It would benefit you more to take him Stock for the chance at instant killing a riptide. You should be trying to get him into close combat with something ASAP, that is where he will do the most damage. Also if your opponent focuses everything he has at it, it will die in 1-2 turns so taking it stock means losing less points if that happens.

Holo fields are always handy, because it's not uncommon for tau to whiff their markerlight rolls, or not have enough markerlights to remove cover from everything each turn.

Wraithguard with D-Cannons in Wave Serpents are great against riptides, Especially if they have a Farseer to twin-link them.

Well for illic, I don't know if it will change opinions about him but I was planning to put him in the dark reaper unit to give them shrouded. I'd put them pretty much at my board edge so that they will out range the marker lights and most of the tau fire power. Illic also has a chance to instant kill a riptide

The striking scorpions are kind of a distraction that will cause damage if they are ignored, I could reduce their number a bit and take monster hunter from the exarch to free up points.

So to free up points I could
drop the warwalker
give the wraithguard wraithcannons
drop a scorpion
drop wraithknight to stock

and with those points I could
give my vehicles holofields
add a fire prism or vauls wrath battery (shadow weavers I guess) or both?
maybe get a farseer in there

Let me know what you think of these changes and I'll post up an edited list

Oh my. I dont have time for the reply needed for this list.
Later then.

I'm not certain you will do well against a tournament type tau list w/o your own tournament type list.

Without going into specifics I would do a quick search of Eldar's best tools against MC, then compare that to the models available to you, maximize your efficiency against the riptides. He is putting a lot of proverbial eggs in one proverbial basket, punish him for it and leverage value that way.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Oh my. I dont have time for the reply needed for this list.
Later then.

Illic is plain bad.
Against tau, scorpains are plain bad.
7 dire avengers is a bit excessive.
Wraithguard are good.
Crimson hunter has no need for marksmans eye.
Dark reapers will die super easily, but may do some damage before they do.
You warwalker. No, just no. Absolute and totall waste. Hes a threat to nothing, and dies when looked at by anything the tau have. Bad.
Wraithknight is fine, although I would recomend running him stock. Being able to roll a 6 and drop a riptide is GREAT.

Your list needs a giant overhall.

Rx8Speed wrote:
Well for illic, I don't know if it will change opinions about him but I was planning to put him in the dark reaper unit to give them shrouded. I'd put them pretty much at my board edge so that they will out range the marker lights and most of the tau fire power. Illic also has a chance to instant kill a riptide

The striking scorpions are kind of a distraction that will cause damage if they are ignored, I could reduce their number a bit and take monster hunter from the exarch to free up points.

So to free up points I could
drop the warwalker
give the wraithguard wraithcannons
drop a scorpion
drop wraithknight to stock

and with those points I could
give my vehicles holofields
add a fire prism or vauls wrath battery (shadow weavers I guess) or both?
maybe get a farseer in there

Let me know what you think of these changes and I'll post up an edited list

If possible, could you post a list of the models available to you? Also, are you allowed to proxy wargear on your models, or is it WYSIWYG?

Some notes:
- The striking scorpions could work as a distraction, but I doubt they'll do much damage if they're ignored since they are not likely to be able to catch anything valuable in close combat. Maybe some fire warriors.
- Spending 140 points on shrouded for your Dark Reapers isn't a very efficient use of points. The utility is even further negated by a buffmander giving his crisis squad/broadsides the ignores cover special rule, which is common in your opponent's type of list. The Dark Reapers can deal some good damage, but they are likely to die quickly regardless of whether you put Illic with them or not.
- Support Batteries are okay in general, but they're not highly competitive, especially when going up against Triptides.
- Fire prisms are alright against MEQ, but with the new rules you'll find them to be a lot less reliable, and against triptides it will most likely go down fast even with the new vehicle durability.
- Adding the Farseer is a very good idea.

Things that are good at taking down riptides:
- Shuriken spam (Guardians with a starcannon or Avengers in serpents work well for catching them)
- Starcannons (6 starcannons on some outflanking warwalkers is good, especially if you have an Autarch, however the war walkers wouldn't last long afterwards, so make them count)
- Stock Wraithknights (can occasionally instant kill them, and can ALWAYS crush them in melee)
- Wraithguard (S:10, AP:2, occasional instant death. pop them out of a serpent and hope for the best)
- Fire Dragons (a poor man's version of the Wraithguard)

Ok so here's a list of what I have:

3x farseers, can use any of them as spiritseer.
2x jetbike mounts for farseers or warlocks(basically oop vauls wrath platforms)
6x warlocks
1x eldrad
1x avatar
1x asurmen
8x striking scorpions
1x striking scorpion exarch with claw
5x wraithguard (magnetised weapons)
3x wraithguard with wraithcannons
12x guardians
1x guardian heavy weapon platform
3x windrider jetbikes (I can proxy these guys as warlocks on jetbikes if I want to go the jetseer council route)
7x dire avengers
1x crimson hunter
2x vypers with magnetized top weapons and underlsung shuriken cannons
8x dark reapers
1x dark reaper exarch
1x fire prism
2x wraithlord
1x wraithknight
1x warwalker
2x wave serpent (modeled with scatter laser and shuriken cannon)

so I was thinking of instead of illic I'd go with eldrad, jetseer council or double farseer on jetbike giving one mantle

here's a possbile list

farseer: jetbike, MoTLG, singing spear 160pts
farseer: jetbike, singing spear, spirit stone 135pts

6x wraithguard: wraithcannons 192pts
wave serpent: scatterlaser, holofields, shuriken cannon 145pts

10x guardians with starcannon platform 110pts
1x warlock 35pts
wave serpent: scatterlaser, holofields, shuriken cannon 145pts

3x jetbikes: 1x shuriken cannnon (probably kept in reserve depending on mission) 61pts

Crimson hunter exarch 180pts

7x dark reapers: starshot missiles + 1x dark reaper exarch: Fast shot EML 296pts

fire prism: holofields, ghostwalk matrix 150pts

wraithknight 240pts

Cant you just spam wave serpents and shoot them with your shields?

You shouldn't be building a list to play against a certain army. Tailoring your army will never make you a better player.

Serpant spam is good vs all armies.

 Master Shake wrote:
You shouldn't be building a list to play against a certain army. Tailoring your army will never make you a better player.

The judgement! It hurts! To be honest I'm not giving myself much of an advantage, I'm not even 100% sure he's bringing the tau list, I just know that he's been playing it and using triple rips. I would like to have a competitive take all comers army with the models that I have that could also deal with a triple riptide tau list. Ideally I would like to have enough anti-air, anti-tank, anti-infantry and anti-MC killing power as possible and at the same time be able to last more than a couple turns against a tau gun line. Also tactics against such an army (not necessarily list related) would be appreciated too.

edit: This is the all comers list I want to play. I like MCs so thats why there's so many of them, hopefully 1 or 2 will make it to combat, they're tough and I have a decent chance at invisibility so I don't think that's unreasonable. I also will be rolling on telepathy for the farseers.

Avatar of Khaine: crushing blow, fast shot

farseer: jetbike, spirit stone

spiritseer

5 dire avengers
11 guardians: starcannon platform
waveserpent ( not sure yet who I'm going to put in this one, guardians or dire avengers)

3x jetbikes: 1x shuriken cannon + warlock

5x wraithguard: dyscythes
waveserpent

Crimson Hunter Exarch: 2x bright lance

Wraithknight: scatter laser + suncannon

wraithlord: scatter laser + starcannon

total 1850pts

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Oh my. I dont have time for the reply needed for this list.
Later then.

ditto

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Oh my. I dont have time for the reply needed for this list.
Later then.

ditto

^^you guys are just too cool huh? Just don't even bother in the future I don't care how much time you have or don't have.

Anyways I played the game. Here's the list I brought:

Avatar: fast shot, warlord

Farseer: jetbike, wraithforge stone
warlock: jetbike (he rolled renew for his power! yes!)
3x windriders: 1 shuriken cannon

10x guardians: starcannon platform
wave serpent: holofields, TL SL, SC

5x wraithguard: d-scythes
wave serpent: holofields, TL SL, SC

1 crimson hunter exarch

1 fire prism

1 wraithlord: bright lance, starcannon

1 wraithknight: suncannon, scatter laser


Tau player decided to be nice and bring only 2 riptides and swapped the third one for a couple tanks with big guns on them. I don't know remember they're called but they're pretty much the tau version of a fire prism. Tau player went first.

First turn, tau took some wounds off the wraithlord and avatar and wraithknight but failed to get first blood. Warlock healed the avatar. Guardians took out a riptide. and wraithknight took out two battlesuits that were joined by his hq. The fire prism took out most of a unit of fire warriors, they then ran off the table.

Second turn. Tau poured TONS of shots into the wraithlord finally bringing it down. He then put a TON more shots into the wraithknight but due to a couple 5+ invuls the knight managed to survive with 1 wound. He also dropped a pie plate on the guardians and sent them all to eldar hell. I healed the knight two wounds. I unloaded the wave serpent on the flank of a battle suit squad (small guys, not riptides or xv88s) and wiped the unit along with some fire warriors that were behind them and in template range. The jetbikes finished off the battle suit unit with the hq. The avatar and wave serpent brought down the shield drones on the second riptide, the wraithknight put a couple wounds on him in shooting and then charged him. I had a bad (but great) assault phase because the wraithknight didn't kill the riptide, he left him with 1 wound which is the best case scenario. This is where we called the game. Which was fair because the the avatar had only taken one wound, the wraithknight had 3 wounds, was locked in combat and would have been healed another two wounds in my turn(unless he took out the jetbikes). Everything else was untouched and the wraithguard were fortuned. Also the flyer hadn't come on yet.

All in all it was a fun game for both players and we are going to have a rematch next week. I can't believe how much fire power the tau have. Like 30 missiles a turn is unreal. It's a good thing my wraithlord and wraithknight were able to soak it all up leaving pretty much the rest of my army untouched. i also firmly believe now that against tau, if you are going to bring wave serpents, put something good in them because wave serpents are pretty much useless against tau except for their transport ability. Their shooting is pretty much just good for taking out the shield drones of the riptides. I did manage to get a some side shots with one of my serpents in turn two but he jinked everything away and I totally whiffed the 6 armor pen rolls.

Rx8Speed wrote:

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Oh my. I dont have time for the reply needed for this list.
Later then.

ditto

^^you guys are just too cool huh? Just don't even bother in the future I don't care how much time you have or don't have.

i also firmly believe now that against tau, if you are going to bring wave serpents, put something good in them because wave serpents are pretty much useless against tau except for their transport ability. Their shooting is pretty much just good for taking out the shield drones of the riptides. I did manage to get a some side shots with one of my serpents in turn two but he jinked everything away and I totally whiffed the 6 armor pen rolls.

two things:

1. check out the time stamps from ninjafiredragon, when he had time (4 hours later) he posted a reply, a quite good reply. You might be taking "later then" as a colloqiual goodbye rather than "ill reply later when I have time" (which he did)

2. Wave Serpents are amazing; one you can't jink vs the ignores cover serpent shield shooting attack, so if they jink on the scatter laser shots they are snapshot firing the next round and still cant take cover saves (jink) vs the serpent shield, or they dont jink at all and eat so much str 6 it would be wierd not to hull them out in 1-2 rounds. Id be hard pressed not to eat hammerheads with wave serpents. two it reads like the riptides were jinking, im not sure if thats what you meant, but if so they can't they are MC's not vehicles. YMMV but theres a reason "Serpent Spam" is considered a major element of tournament play. It would be unwise to discount our (Eldar's) most ridiculous vehicle based on a small sample set when the larger sample set shows quite the opposite.

a third thing really: I think you really hampered your ability against > AV12 by going with the suncannon over the heavy wraith cannons on the WK. Considering the amount of str 6-7 you already had + the dscythes It seems like you were well appointed for MEQ/TEQ and swarm killing. 17% chance to puff any target is pretty amazing on a 10/2 gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry to keep appending: but the best way to say what I mean about the wk load out would be: I think it was poor planning to take both the sun cannon on the wk and the scythes on the WG's. Both of these choices do about the same thing. I'd out them opposite of each other as a choice: either sun cannon on the wk and the d cannons on the WG _or_ d cannon on the WK and d scythes on the WG. Personally I like a serpent or two of fire dragons so I'd go sun cannon on the WK and d cannons on the WG, roll that serpent up on the riptide and good night Tau

1) You are right I totally overlooked that.

2) I like to use them mostly as transports, but that's just my style of play. The fact that they can dish out the medium strength shots en masse is really just a bonus. i did roll a 6 for the serpent shield shots shooting at side armor of a hammerhead but I whiffed all of the armor pen rolls. Also the riptdes weren't jinking it was the hammerhead who jinked all of the scatter and shuriken shots.

3) Ya I was expecting a lot of 2+ and 3+ armor saves and I wasn't really expecting to face much armor but I was expecting lots of batle suits. The main reason for taking the suncannon on the wraithknight was the 5++ and in that game it was really worth it. I really just wanted the wraithknight to survive until he made it into combat