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Just getting back to grey knights after the new codex release... here is my list so far:

Draigo
245

Librarian (This one's the Warlord)
ML 3
Hammer
Teleport Homer
Domina Liber Demonica
175

Librarian
ML 3
Hammer
Teleport Homer
150

10 Terminators
2 Psycannons
1 Warding Stave
5 Halberds
385

10 Terminators
2 Psycannons
1 Warding Stave
5 Halberds
385

Razorback
55

Dreadknight
Teleporter
Incinerator
Hammer
180

Dreadknight
Teleporter
Psycannon
Hammer
195

Aegis Defence Line
Comms Relay
70

Total 1850

Basically Draigo and 10 terminators hold the fort until everything else deep strikes. The warlord librarian goes for santic, and the other for telepathy. If the telepath gets invisibility, he joins Draigo, otherwise we hope for sanctuary on the other librarian. Near the end of the game draigo (and possibly the santic librarian) can teleport to objectives.

Thoughts:

-Flyers definitely a problem, but not so much flying monstrous creatures. Psychic shriek should kill the shooty kind, and Force should make the killy kind stay well away.
-Vehicles also a problem, but not as much. Teleporting Dreadknights can deal with them. If necessary the one with the incinerator can exchange that for a psycannon to help that.
-Razorback is there to fill out points... only <60 point unit available with decent range... will stick with the heavy bolter as this gives it some range so it can hang back on backfield objectives. Ideally the enemy should be too distracted to deal with it
-Numbers... definitely a problem.
-Not too worried about getting bogged down in combat, as draigo or possibly the santic librarian can teleport their units out.

Questions:

-Can I take the comms relay without the defence line?
-If so should I drop the defence line and razorback for something else? If so what?
-Should I stick with one heavy incinerator and one heavy psycannon or go for two of either?

Any other suggestions are also welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Honestly I would drop a Librarian and the razorback and get a stormraven. It will give you AA and access to MM and LC/AC/PC all for 200 pts. I'd maybe tweak a couple weapon options but I feel that's just me nitpicking lol. Otherwise looks like a good list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for your questions.. 1)no you have to take the ADL. 2)read my my comment above. Only drop the comms relay if you don't want to deep strike everything turn 1.3)Try it both ways and see what works best for you. Depending on your local meta you may need to loadout differently than I would.

Edit: In another debate I was forced to reverse my position on the Comms Relay.

Why did you choose the Librarian to be your Warlord? In my experience Librarians take the most fire, and are the most likely to kill themselves with a Perils. Any character can be the Warlord and still generate a Warlord Trait. If you aren't set on the Warlord trait being useful, Draigo would be great. But then again, the possibility for starting with 6/7 Sanctic powers is pretty good.

I'd drop a Librarian to use the points elsewhere, especially since you have Draigo filling a similar role. The Librarian you do take I would make ML3, and give him the Domina Lieber Daemonica, for a total of 160 points. That way he has a 2/3 chance of getting Gate of Infinity, or whichever other powers you were hoping for.

I wouldn't dedicate so much of the list to Terminators. With only a 6" move, they aren't very mobile unless you are using Gate of Infinity on them, which prevents them from charging on the turn they do so. I think two squads of 5 would be plenty. Remember everything is Scoring, and Terminators only get Objective Secured if you use the Combined Arms Detachment which doesn't bring Deep Strike reserves in until turn 2.

But honestly, if you can make that many Terminators work, let me know how, because I have a bunch of models that aren't getting much use at the moment.

I personally think Teleport Homers are useless for all Grey Knights except Interceptors. If you Teleport them in, they, and any other unit arriving the same turn still scatter the full distance, and they only benefit any units unfortunate enough to not have arrived yet. If you start them on the board, then Gate of Infinity or Shunt them into position, then there is no reason to take the Nemesis Strike Force, because Turn 1 Deep Strike would occur before the Gate of Infinity (or Shunt) could be used.

The Warding Stave is more valuable on the Librarian because of his higher ML, and putting it on a Terminator doesn't save you any points. A hammer on a Terminator for 10 points compliments the Librarian's free Warding Stave more than a 5 point Warding Stave on a Terminator with a 5 point Hammer on the Librarian.

Razorbacks were OK in the previous Codex because of how cheap they were, but they really can't compete with the Stormraven for that Fast Attack slot. I'd drop it.

Speaking of which, your list needs a pair of Stormravens if there are going to be enemy fliers. They provide good anti-air, and long-range High-strength anti-armor, especially if you give them the Twin-linked Lascannon, and the Twin-linked Multi-melta, which are free upgrades. They fill the roles you already acknowledged your list lacked.

The new Heavy Psycannon is awesome with its 6 shot, S7, Rending Profile. I would definitely put one on each Dreadknight. The Heavy Incinerator or Gatling Psilencer can be really good second weapons depending on your opponent.
I believe Master Crafted from the Nemesis Greatsword is much more useful than Concussive from the Nemesis Daemon Hammer.

So far my suggestions make the list...

LoW: Draigo (245)
HQ: Librarian, ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica (160)
T: Terminators, Psycannon, Hammer (195)
T: Terminators, Psycannon, Hammer (195)
F: Storm Raven, Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta (200)
F: Storm Raven, Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta (200)
H: Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator (220)
H: Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator (220)
Fort: Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay (70)
F: Interceptors, Incinerator, 1 pair of Falchions, 3 Halberds (145)
They can hold the Comms Relay (preferably within holding distance of an objective) until everyone has arrived. They hold the one objective if it comes up, and they can shunt to another one if prudent.

Just FYI Psychic Shriek is a witchfire and still needs to roll to hit before you resolve the 3d6-LD wounds part, so it's not that great against FMCs.

 Fearfire wrote:
Just FYI Psychic Shriek is a witchfire and still needs to roll to hit before you resolve the 3d6-LD wounds part, so it's not that great against FMCs.

Not sure about that -- have to check


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lsjreadingpa wrote:
Honestly I would drop a Librarian and the razorback and get a stormraven. It will give you AA and access to MM and LC/AC/PC all for 200 pts. I'd maybe tweak a couple weapon options but I feel that's just me nitpicking lol. Otherwise looks like a good list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for your questions.. 1)no you have to take the ADL. 2)read my my comment above. Only drop the comms relay if you don't want to deep strike everything turn 1.3)Try it both ways and see what works best for you. Depending on your local meta you may need to loadout differently than I would.

Thinking on doing just that... would really like invis and santic powers though...

ForeverARookie wrote:

Spoiler:

The Behemoth wrote:
Just getting back to grey knights after the new codex release... here is my list so far:

Draigo
245

Librarian (This one's the Warlord)
ML 3
Hammer
Teleport Homer
Domina Liber Demonica
175

Librarian
ML 3
Hammer
Teleport Homer
150

10 Terminators
2 Psycannons
1 Warding Stave
5 Halberds
385

10 Terminators
2 Psycannons
1 Warding Stave
5 Halberds
385

Razorback
55

Dreadknight
Teleporter
Incinerator
Hammer
180

Dreadknight
Teleporter
Psycannon
Hammer
195

Aegis Defence Line
Comms Relay
70

Total 1850

Basically Draigo and 10 terminators hold the fort until everything else deep strikes. The warlord librarian goes for santic, and the other for telepathy. If the telepath gets invisibility, he joins Draigo, otherwise we hope for sanctuary on the other librarian. Near the end of the game draigo (and possibly the santic librarian) can teleport to objectives.

Thoughts:

-Flyers definitely a problem, but not so much flying monstrous creatures. Psychic shriek should kill the shooty kind, and Force should make the killy kind stay well away.
-Vehicles also a problem, but not as much. Teleporting Dreadknights can deal with them. If necessary the one with the incinerator can exchange that for a psycannon to help that.
-Razorback is there to fill out points... only <60 point unit available with decent range... will stick with the heavy bolter as this gives it some range so it can hang back on backfield objectives. Ideally the enemy should be too distracted to deal with it
-Numbers... definitely a problem.
-Not too worried about getting bogged down in combat, as draigo or possibly the santic librarian can teleport their units out.

Questions:

-Can I take the comms relay without the defence line?
-If so should I drop the defence line and razorback for something else? If so what?
-Should I stick with one heavy incinerator and one heavy psycannon or go for two of either?

Any other suggestions are also welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: In another debate I was forced to reverse my position on the Comms Relay.

Why did you choose the Librarian to be your Warlord? In my experience Librarians take the most fire, and are the most likely to kill themselves with a Perils. Any character can be the Warlord and still generate a Warlord Trait. If you aren't set on the Warlord trait being useful, Draigo would be great. But then again, the possibility for starting with 6/7 Sanctic powers is pretty good.

I'd drop a Librarian to use the points elsewhere, especially since you have Draigo filling a similar role. The Librarian you do take I would make ML3, and give him the Domina Lieber Daemonica, for a total of 160 points. That way he has a 2/3 chance of getting Gate of Infinity, or whichever other powers you were hoping for.

I wouldn't dedicate so much of the list to Terminators. With only a 6" move, they aren't very mobile unless you are using Gate of Infinity on them, which prevents them from charging on the turn they do so. I think two squads of 5 would be plenty. Remember everything is Scoring, and Terminators only get Objective Secured if you use the Combined Arms Detachment which doesn't bring Deep Strike reserves in until turn 2.

But honestly, if you can make that many Terminators work, let me know how, because I have a bunch of models that aren't getting much use at the moment.

I personally think Teleport Homers are useless for all Grey Knights except Interceptors. If you Teleport them in, they, and any other unit arriving the same turn still scatter the full distance, and they only benefit any units unfortunate enough to not have arrived yet. If you start them on the board, then Gate of Infinity or Shunt them into position, then there is no reason to take the Nemesis Strike Force, because Turn 1 Deep Strike would occur before the Gate of Infinity (or Shunt) could be used.

The Warding Stave is more valuable on the Librarian because of his higher ML, and putting it on a Terminator doesn't save you any points. A hammer on a Terminator for 10 points compliments the Librarian's free Warding Stave more than a 5 point Warding Stave on a Terminator with a 5 point Hammer on the Librarian.

Razorbacks were OK in the previous Codex because of how cheap they were, but they really can't compete with the Stormraven for that Fast Attack slot. I'd drop it.

Speaking of which, your list needs a pair of Stormravens if there are going to be enemy fliers. They provide good anti-air, and long-range High-strength anti-armor, especially if you give them the Twin-linked Lascannon, and the Twin-linked Multi-melta, which are free upgrades. They fill the roles you already acknowledged your list lacked.

The new Heavy Psycannon is awesome with its 6 shot, S7, Rending Profile. I would definitely put one on each Dreadknight. The Heavy Incinerator or Gatling Psilencer can be really good second weapons depending on your opponent.
I believe Master Crafted from the Nemesis Greatsword is much more useful than Concussive from the Nemesis Daemon Hammer.

So far my suggestions make the list...

LoW: Draigo (245)
HQ: Librarian, ML3, Domina Liber Daemonica (160)
T: Terminators, Psycannon, Hammer (195)
T: Terminators, Psycannon, Hammer (195)
F: Storm Raven, Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta (200)
F: Storm Raven, Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta (200)
H: Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator (220)
H: Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator (220)
Fort: Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay (70)
F: Interceptors, Incinerator, 1 pair of Falchions, 3 Halberds (145)
They can hold the Comms Relay (preferably within holding distance of an objective) until everyone has arrived. They hold the one objective if it comes up, and they can shunt to another one if prudent.

1) The librarian is my warlord because I don't anticipate him getting into challenge, as he is the most likely to have Draigo in his unit (2/3 or 5/6 chance of sanctuary versus 1/2 chance of invis). However, you raise a good point, what other model would you suggest for warlord? Preferably not Draigo, as I would prefer a useful trait over what he has, and I can hide what I do choose to be the warlord behind him.
2) The second librarian isn't as useful I agree, but again I like him for the chance at invis while having semi-reliable sanctuary. However I will keep that in mind.
3) Agreed, but what other unit would you suggest? Purifiers suffer from even greater lack of mobility imo for the same-ish cost, similar deal with strikes. Interceptors seem good on paper but I am worried about them getting worn down by attrition due to poorer saves. Probably wouldn't break down into two squads of 5, 1 of 10 is easier to buff via powers and can be combat squadded if needed.
4) Completely agree, adding those was stupid of me.
5) Each terminator unit has a stave. As the rule is for the unit not the model this means that the Librarian doesn't need it. The hammer provides a useful tool should he have to take on a monstrous creature.
6) I agree, this was only here because it was the only decent unit for <60 points.
7) The melee weapon is only there for the force rule to take on monstrous creatures, as for the ranged weapons, Assuming I only take one (as the melee weapon arms cant have a gun), which would you suggest?

Thanks a lot everyone for all the helpful advice!

The Behemoth wrote:
1) The librarian is my warlord because I don't anticipate him getting into challenge, as he is the most likely to have Draigo in his unit (2/3 or 5/6 chance of sanctuary versus 1/2 chance of invis). However, you raise a good point, what other model would you suggest for warlord? Preferably not Draigo, as I would prefer a useful trait over what he has, and I can hide what I do choose to be the warlord behind him.
2) The second librarian isn't as useful I agree, but again I like him for the chance at invis while having semi-reliable sanctuary. However I will keep that in mind.
3) Agreed, but what other unit would you suggest? Purifiers suffer from even greater lack of mobility imo for the same-ish cost, similar deal with strikes. Interceptors seem good on paper but I am worried about them getting worn down by attrition due to poorer saves. Probably wouldn't break down into two squads of 5, 1 of 10 is easier to buff via powers and can be combat squadded if needed.
4) Completely agree, adding those was stupid of me.
5) Each terminator unit has a stave. As the rule is for the unit not the model this means that the Librarian doesn't need it. The hammer provides a useful tool should he have to take on a monstrous creature.
6) I agree, this was only here because it was the only decent unit for <60 points.
7) The melee weapon is only there for the force rule to take on monstrous creatures, as for the ranged weapons, Assuming I only take one (as the melee weapon arms cant have a gun), which would you suggest?

Thanks a lot everyone for all the helpful advice!

1: For a useful Warlord Trait the Librarian is probably the best, even though he may have the shortest life expectancy. Draigo would have the best odds of denying the enemy the "Slay the Warlord" point. The other option would be to make some generic Justicar the Warlord as it further divides your center of power, and it would be hilarious if a squad of Terminators could cast their own Gate of Infinity (1/36 chance of getting that). With your list I'd probably stick with the Librarian.

3: Of the 20 Terminators, I replaced 10 Terminators with a second Stormraven and a squad of Interceptors, bringing the total number of Fast Attack Slots to 3, meaning it has to be a Combined Arms detachment, which requires 2 Troops. That is why I split the other 10 Terminators into two units.

If you substitute Purifiers for the Interceptors, you can have the 10-man Terminator squad and a Nemesis Strike Force detachment. The Purifiers aren't mobile though, so you'd really need to make sure their Aegis Line and Comms Relay are close to an Objective for them to hold.

5: I overlooked that. Thanks for pointing that out.

7: There's no rule preventing the Dreadknight from taking two guns and a Nemesis weapon. The gun and melee upgrades are listed separately and do not effect each other. If you were told otherwise, I believe you were lied to, or the other person who told you was lied to.

Honestly, the guns are fairly well priced. I personally like the Heavy Psycannon the best, because there is no unit in the game it isn't capable of hurting with its 6 S7 Rending shots. It is the best rounded weapon. The Heavy Incinerator is second for me, because the combination of S6, AP4, Ignores cover on a Torrent weapon does wanders for clearing out hoards and swarms. The Gatling Psilencer gets more love from other people than you'll hear from me. Mathematically it falls a little behind the Heavy Psycannon, but Force gives it that slight chance to skew the game in your favor if your opponent fails that save on an important model.

So once again I point to my proposed list. You could field it as-is as a Combined Arms Detachment, or you could exchange the Interceptors for Purifiers so you can take the list as a Nemesis Strike Force if you want. They'd generate 2 Warp Charges instead of 1, and can sit still on an objective (and hold a Comms Relay) behind an Aegis Line as well as anyone else can.

Okay, this is my new list:

HQ:
Librarian, ML3, Hammer, Liber Demonica
165 pts

Troops:
10 Terminators, 2 Psycannons, 1 Stave, 5 Halberds
385 pts

Fast Attack:
Stormraven
200 pts

Heavy Support:
Dreadknight, teleporter, sword, incinerator
190 pts

Dreadknight, teleporter, hammer, psycannon
200 pts

Lord of war:
Draigo
245 pts

Fortification:
Aegis Defence line, comms relay.

Librarian is warlord. This leaves me with 395 points for another unit / upgrades to the stormraven (what would you suggest?). Keep in mind I will be using the Grey Knights detachment. The problem with Dreadknights taking more than 1 ranged weapon is that the model can't physically be put together with a melee weapon and two ranged weapons. If you know of any easy conversions however, let me know as having >1 weapon would be great.

I would always bring the sword on my knights since they now go at I1 with the power fist and hammer

Unless I missed something, since Unwieldy provides an exception for MCs and Walkers, the fists and hammer strike at I4. Did I miss something?

Nutzen Bolts wrote:
Unless I missed something, since Unwieldy provides an exception for MCs and Walkers, the fists and hammer strike at I4. Did I miss something?

No you are correct. Lol. The only difference between Dreadknight weapon is....FIST; not force any more, HAMMER for 5 points more; Force, SWORD for 10 points; Force and Mastercrafted... All of these are swung at normal I.

haha wow I am glad some one found that, That is the one place I forgot to look for an exception to unwieldy.