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Hi, i was wondering how everyone tackles this? My gaming group ruled out the use of low in general a while back now, but a member now wants to bring a super heavy to the game saying that the rest of us are di*ks if we say no
Though i know personally id hate to go against any superheavy as i feel it would strip the fun from the games completely as half of any shots wont hurt them

I know you could just say "take more melta" but i prefer to play for fun not for competitiveness.

Anywhooo how do you guys play it? Do you allow super heavies? And if so do they have to declare before hand that they are using it (so you know to prepare)

Thanks dudes and dudettes!

"take more melta"

But seriously, it's up to your local area to decide how they want to do it. You could always just refuse to play the guy if you really don't want to play the guy.

I personally don't feel it's right to blatantly say NO to them all together. I know that I don't like to face them every single game, but I will face them occasionally. I do feel, however, it is proper etiquette for them to at least warn me if they plan on bringing one or more, so I might be able to at least make a list that can potentially handle such threats. And I feel that's a proper trade. They can use their awesome, big models. Just give me a chance to properly prepare so it's not a slaughter fest.

If you don't want to play against a certain list, you don't play against it. It's that simple. It's a game and as with every game, you're supposed to have fun. If one party's fun is denied, there's no game.

'Choosing Your Army', in the 'Preparing For Battle' section of the rulebook. The line in bold print has your answer.

I'm not sure why half the shots wouldn't hurt them...? They are units like any other, they just take more shots to kill.

Anyways, my club allows full FW and even LoWs nowadays, but there's the expectancy you don't show up with a Revenant Titan when the theme is 'fluffy team games'...

It sounds like you don't want to play vs a super heavy. Don't play him. That's it. If you do play him have a list built to handle them. There not as bad , well ok they are bad till dead.

total0 wrote:

I know you could just say "take more melta" but i prefer to play for fun not for competitiveness.

That right there is why you should allow Super Heavies.

The vast majority of them are NOT super competitive. A couple guys with melta guns have a good change of roasting all but the toughest super heavy vehicles.

Also, your fiend isn't able to have fun because you won't let him take his super heavy. An expensive model he spent his hard earned cash on, and maybe he's lovingly painted it too. If you'd spent a couple hundred bucks and many hours of your time painting this awesome model I bet you'd be pissed if your friends said "you can't use that here".

Most LoW are also not even Super Heavies. Are you disallowing Logan and Dragio just because they're in the LoW slot?

The aim of this topic was to see how others tackle this situation.

I'd already said it was not allowed before (group rule) but i have made this topic to find a way to approach this so im being nothing but flexable.

I didnt notice the part in the book that said you'd have to say what is limited ect! Though thebonly way o can think of tackling one person sayin no and the other yes to using them is to first say if you are using it first? At least that way both people are happy, you get to use a super heavy but the opponent also stands a chance against it

Did he say which one he wants to bring?

I have a few of "SuperHeavies" because I like the models and they really look cool.
It is a sad day to deny someone from playing with their toys...
They are not always fielded in the spirit of "caving face".
I inflict on myself the "handicap" of declaring I am fielding a super heavy before the next game night.
I also believe in the "rule of cool" where if it is not painted and pretty... why else would you field it?
I have also set up 3 part scenarios and use them as a "boss" in the ending game.

They are expensive models, they look pretty good, they take a while to assemble and no small amount of work to paint: at least play a game and try it out, they may go down easier than you think.
<edit> If you manage to take one down you can tell that David vs Goliath story for years...

I would just like to say he hasnt actually bought the model so he hasn't spent any money. Im not some ass that denies people what they can or cant use, originally we didnt allow 2 mc of the same type but allowed him to do.so so im hardly saying no to everything he wants. Though i think declaring is the best way to deal with it as it helps both parties out

But he clearly wants to spend the money a really cool model, so yes you are being a bit of an ass.

And saying no to 2 of the same MC is definitely being a bit of an ass.

He's really just asking you guys to play normal 40k instead of "Onlywhatwewanttoplayagainsthammer40k"

 Grey Templar wrote:
But he clearly wants to spend the money a really cool model, so yes you are being a bit of an ass.

And saying no to 2 of the same MC is definitely being a bit of an ass.

He's really just asking you guys to play normal 40k instead of "Onlywhatwewanttoplayagainsthammer40k"

Maybe that rule was to prevent nooby spam lists such as 6th Edition's Riptide spam or Wraithknight spam? I totally agree with the OP as he should declare before using it as how fun is a game if one player literally cannot hurt the enemy?

 Grey Templar wrote:
But he clearly wants to spend the money a really cool model, so yes you are being a bit of an ass.

And saying no to 2 of the same MC is definitely being a bit of an ass.

He's really just asking you guys to play normal 40k instead of "Onlywhatwewanttoplayagainsthammer40k"

I'd appreciate if you didnt insult me, tell me this how am i being an ass if im trying to find a happy medium? Fimd a way that means we'll both have fun and one side isn't dominated by the other. If i was an ass would we have adapted the rules to bring another dk? No.... We wouldn't. You call me an ass but it's not just me making the decision, it was a collective decision before he even showed interest in getting it! So it hasnt been said to.just deny him...

Another point, I've adapted my original list of 2 bike squads with plasma as it destroyed him too easily but i guess thats me being an ass too is it?

It does sound like you are limiting the playing field quite a bit. Why limit things to only 1 MC of one type for example?

As long as he isn't picking a LoW that is spamming X number of D pie plates a turn then I don't see the problem with it.

I grantee that unless you're running nothing but guardsmen with no upgrades you'll be able to take on any super heavy there is.

Knights are just an Dreadnought with 6 hull points thats immune to weapon destroyed/stunned and immobilized. Its 4+ save is on one side only. Flank it from multiple angles. Surely you can do 6 hull points to AV13/12 with a 4+ save.

Riptides and Wraithknights are just slightly bigger MCs. Kill them like you would any other MC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

total0 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But he clearly wants to spend the money a really cool model, so yes you are being a bit of an ass.

And saying no to 2 of the same MC is definitely being a bit of an ass.

He's really just asking you guys to play normal 40k instead of "Onlywhatwewanttoplayagainsthammer40k"

I'd appreciate if you didnt insult me, tell me this how am i being an ass if im trying to find a happy medium? Fimd a way that means we'll both have fun and one side isn't dominated by the other. If i was an ass would we have adapted the rules to bring another dk? No.... We wouldn't. You call me an ass but it's not just me making the decision, it was a collective decision before he even showed interest in getting it! So it hasnt been said to.just deny him...

Another point, I've adapted my original list of 2 bike squads with plasma as it destroyed him too easily but i guess thats me being an ass too is it?

I'm just calling you out on the fact that you really are being a bit of a douche. The fact you had to "adapt" to allowing a 2nd Dreadknight is proof you were being one.

How would you like it if I said "you can't bring that unit of Fire Dragons" or "You can only run 2 of your 6 Lemun Russ tanks at a time"

You're basically telling him(and everyone in your group) which of his toys he can play with and which he can't.

No group should ever need to arbitrarily say what you can and cannot play with. Its not good sportsmanship.

What if a new guy showed up to your group and he played an IG army with an allied Knight detachment. Your rules would prevent him from using his nice shiny models.

I don't want you to feel offended, but you came here asking for opinions. My opinion is that Super Heavies are part of the game, no different to how Land Raiders are part of the game, and limiting them because you have a misconception about them is wrong.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I grantee that unless you're running nothing but guardsmen with no upgrades you'll be able to take on any super heavy there is.

Knights are just an Dreadnought with 6 hull points thats immune to weapon destroyed/stunned and immobilized. Its 4+ save is on one side only. Flank it from multiple angles. Surely you can do 6 hull points to AV13/12 with a 4+ save.

Riptides and Wraithknights are just slightly bigger MCs. Kill them like you would any other MC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

total0 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But he clearly wants to spend the money a really cool model, so yes you are being a bit of an ass.

And saying no to 2 of the same MC is definitely being a bit of an ass.

He's really just asking you guys to play normal 40k instead of "Onlywhatwewanttoplayagainsthammer40k"

I'd appreciate if you didnt insult me, tell me this how am i being an ass if im trying to find a happy medium? Fimd a way that means we'll both have fun and one side isn't dominated by the other. If i was an ass would we have adapted the rules to bring another dk? No.... We wouldn't. You call me an ass but it's not just me making the decision, it was a collective decision before he even showed interest in getting it! So it hasnt been said to.just deny him...

Another point, I've adapted my original list of 2 bike squads with plasma as it destroyed him too easily but i guess thats me being an ass too is it?

I'm just calling you out on the fact that you really are being a bit of a douche. The fact you had to "adapt" to allowing a 2nd Dreadknight is proof you were being one.

How would you like it if I said "you can't bring that unit of Fire Dragons" or "You can only run 2 of your 6 Lemun Russ tanks at a time"

You're basically telling him(and everyone in your group) which of his toys he can play with and which he can't.

No group should ever need to arbitrarily say what you can and cannot play with. Its not good sportsmanship.

What if a new guy showed up to your group and he played an IG army with an allied Knight detachment. Your rules would prevent him from using his nice shiny models.

I don't want you to feel offended, but you came here asking for opinions. My opinion is that Super Heavies are part of the game, no different to how Land Raiders are part of the game, and limiting them because you have a misconception about them is wrong.

DELETED

SGTPozy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I grantee that unless you're running nothing but guardsmen with no upgrades you'll be able to take on any super heavy there is.

Knights are just an Dreadnought with 6 hull points thats immune to weapon destroyed/stunned and immobilized. Its 4+ save is on one side only. Flank it from multiple angles. Surely you can do 6 hull points to AV13/12 with a 4+ save.

Your first part about comparing Dreadknights to Imperial Knights is extremely hilarious! You said 'just', yeah you said 'JUST' what are you talking about, they are nothing alike! One is a Monstrous Creature, the other is a Super Heavy Walker. That is just like comparing a Space Marine with a Dreadnought, 'cuz you know, the only difference is that one is a Walker, which has AV 12,12,10 compared to T4, and 3 HP compared to 1 W oh and is Relentless, has more attacks etc. You are the highest ass ever, Grey Templar!

Grey Templar's comparison is valid, yours is not SGTPozy.

He compared a vehicle that has AV12 on front (Sometimes AV 13), with a vehicle that has AV 13 on the front...

Walkers and Super Heavy Walkers are really similar.

Dreadnoughts and Marines are not.

I said Dreadnought, not Dreadknight.

At my local GW and FLGS it is pretty much an unwritten rule of common courtsey to let the other person that you are playing know if you are planning to bring flyers or LOW or superheavies and if that is ok with the other person. Some people are ok with somethings or not ok with others (there is this one person who won't fight fliers but thinks that LOW and all other non-flying superheavies are ok and balanced). I personally don't mind fighting againstanything at least once just so i can learn how to handle it but if i'm done with my list then i get the heads up i'll ask if i can do some minor point tweaks, not a major rewrite of the list but if the other guy is planning on taking an army of imperial knights I don't think my deathmarks will be much use there.

He says it is like a bigger dreadnought, not knight. Just saying.

To the OP: what makes you think that superheavies, or any other unit in the game, need to be limited?

People are still missing my original point, trying to fimd away for him to use it in the group and make everyone happy, have i actually said he cant use it? Or am i trying to find a way and everyone be ok with it?

Ok then, bearing in mind that everyone else obides by tge rules amd he has been the only one who has had the restrictions (set in placr before the imperial knight got released) he was fine with it, but suddenly now its all changed.

I posted this thread up to see if there were any rules about the predicament we are in and there was, leading to a middle ground of being able to use one as long as it is announced before game, how is that anything but fare? Both sides stand a chance, one gets the superheavy the other knows what to expect.

A point I'd like to make is that I've been stoped from using belakor and been described by the player who wants to use the knight as "being a di#k" now knowing this, and how im trying to make everyone happy do i get an apology?

Oberron wrote:
At my local GW and FLGS it is pretty much an unwritten rule of common curtsy to let the other person that you are playing know if you are planning to bring flyers or LOW or superheavies and if that is ok with the other person.

(Emphasis mine)

I thought only people in the UK did that when they played Warhammer...



To the OP, why not just let him use it?

it is not like the IK's are all that powerful.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
He says it is like a bigger dreadnought, not knight. Just saying.

To the OP: what makes you think that superheavies, or any other unit in the game, need to be limited?

It was a group rule, im trying to find a happy medium to allow the use of one and make everyone happy

I apologise to you Grey Templar, I misread that as Dreadknight hence my stupid comparison, thanks everyone for pointing it out and making me look like an ABSOLUTE IDIOT

The rules don't tell you what to do when you aren't following the rules or make up your own.

The easiest solution is to just allow everything and stop having to deal with allowing vs not allowing. Everyone will be happier.

As knowing what to expect. Just know that Bob owns an X and if you play against him you'll probably have to be able to deal with it. The only time you'll ever be surprised is the first time Bob fields something new, which really no different to any other new unit.

If you've been playing Bob for years and he always fields the same list, you probably expect him to play the same list tonight. But surprise! Bob got a shiny new Land Raider last week. You've never had to deal armor great then 12 before! Is it unfair that he didn't tell you have got a Land Raider? Not at all. After all, you could(and probably have) do the same to him.

I think the easiest and best answer to this question is to simply get rid of this so called group rule. Discuss it with your group and play for a few weeks without it and see how it goes.
I think you will find that most superheavies are quite managable, even with a tac list. Of course there are some exceptions, but then again there are always going to be lists that break casual games, superheavies or not.

Banning and limiting a selection of models from superheavies to MCs is an easy way to both imbalance the game, and to irritate players who wish to use these models.

Of course if you know you are bringing something out of the ordinary, then it is common courtesy to say so before the game, usually in advance so the opponent can get something ready.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I think the easiest and best answer to this question is to simply get rid of this so called group rule. Discuss it with your group and play for a few weeks without it and see how it goes.
I think you will find that most superheavies are quite managable, even with a tac list. Of course there are some exceptions, but then again there are always going to be lists that break casual games, superheavies or not.

Banning and limiting a selection of models from superheavies to MCs is an easy way to both imbalance the game, and to irritate players who wish to use these models.

Of course if you know you are bringing something out of the ordinary, then it is common courtesy to say so before the game, usually in advance so the opponent can get something ready.

I've agreed with you, i believe its more than acceptable to have to declare before using it as courtesy. Although people are seeimg me as saying no to it... I've agreed they should be able to be used but needng to declare before hand. Its not my soul decision its majority vote and im trying to make everyone happy


Also the rules were set up to stop riptide spam ect

We have this "agreement" where people try their best to make sure everyone is having a good time.

That includes stuff like:
-Don't bring your LoW to every game if you know the rest hates it.
-Don't deny your opponent his LoW every game if you know he loves it.
-Don't bring a LoW unannounced.
-Don't bring your tournament-list unannounced.

That's the beauty of really small groups!
If you keep ruining the game for your opponents, you will end up with a couple of thousand euro invested in a hobby that you cannot play because you can't find an opponent.