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2000 Point List in need of reviewing please.

HQ
Belial with TH SS
Librarian ML2 mace of redemption and power field gen
DW comm sq with a dakka banner a champ and 4x TT SS

Elites
DW Knights

''Troops''

3 squads of 5 terms all with TH SS and a cyclone launcher in each unit.

Heavy
Land Raider Crusader with a multi melta and dw vehicle upgrade.

comes in at 1995 points

Belial will be with the knights deep striking.
the librarian will be with the dw comm sq inside the land raider granting an invun save to the tank. most likely the comm sq will pop out for assault leaving the lib inside alone. dakka banner will stay close granting the LR 24 twin linked bolters.
3 terms squads hopefully deepstriking onto objectives or near the knights for support.

please leave feedback for the list. I am aware that the mace on the lib may be wasted but didnt know where else to put the points in.

 Carl4t7 wrote:
2000 Point List in need of reviewing please.

HQ
Belial with TH SS
Librarian ML2 mace of redemption and power field gen
DW comm sq with a dakka banner a champ and 4x TT SS

Elites
DW Knights

''Troops''

3 squads of 5 terms all with TH SS and a cyclone launcher in each unit.

Heavy
Land Raider Crusader with a multi melta and dw vehicle upgrade.

comes in at 1995 points

Belial will be with the knights deep striking.
the librarian will be with the dw comm sq inside the land raider granting an invun save to the tank. most likely the comm sq will pop out for assault leaving the lib inside alone. dakka banner will stay close granting the LR 24 twin linked bolters.
3 terms squads hopefully deepstriking onto objectives or near the knights for support.

please leave feedback for the list. I am aware that the mace on the lib may be wasted but didnt know where else to put the points in.

Things that pop into my head reading this list

If knights deepstrike their asking to get pie plated

All your regular terminators can only fire a cml once they arrive and again are asking to get pie plated

The minimum change I'd make is drop some thundernators for lc's to give you a few extra attacks.

Banner of devastation sucks on termites. It's more oriented to the ravenwing, I'd sooner take fortitude or the dw banner. Alternatively you could swap them for a vet command squad, get mote dakka out of the banner, or simply get rid of wholesale

Anyone with a good fortification (fort of r., flamestorm, bastion, void shield) turtle build laughs at this list as do dark eldar

Your reliant on cc to kill av14, a solid spam of it cripples this list

Mace of redemption is pointless I concur

Nids would laugh at this list cause.. Nids

I'd change a few things:

1) Squad loadout: give the terminator with CML a chainfist. It gives you something to help deal with knights and AV13 walkers/chariots. I wouldn't take any lightning claws.

2) The dakka banner? Why do you have it in this list? It doesn't work on terminator storm bolters, so you are paying 65 points to improve a grand total of 6 bolters. Not worth it imo. If you were going to use more landraiders like this 2Kk DW list I use however.....
3) Dropping terminators everywhere can be risky. Either buy them riders, or get a way to deep strike them accurately. Consider putting Belial in a LRC, this will create a large area for accurate deepstrikes around its hull.

4) 5 assault squads but only 1 transport wont end well.

5) The champion is pretty much a waste of space imo.

6) If you don't take a command squad, then take the LRC as a dedicated transport to get OS.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I'd change a few things:

1) Squad loadout: give the terminator with CML a chainfist. It gives you something to help deal with knights and AV13 walkers/chariots. I wouldn't take any lightning claws.

2) The dakka banner? Why do you have it in this list? It doesn't work on terminator storm bolters, so you are paying 65 points to improve a grand total of 6 bolters. Not worth it imo. If you were going to use more landraiders like this 2Kk DW list I use however.....

Spoiler:

Belial
DW Command squad - 3xTH/SS, 1x CML/CF, dakka banner
Techmarine - pfg

DW terminators - 3xTH/SS, 1x CML/CF -LRC with DW vehicle &mm
DW terminators - 3xTH/SS, 1x CML/CF -LRC with DW vehicle &mm

LRC with DW vehicle &mm

3) Dropping terminators everywhere can be risky. Either buy them riders, or get a way to deep strike them accurately. Consider putting Belial in a LRC, this will create a large area for accurate deepstrikes around its hull.

4) 5 assault squads but only 1 transport wont end well.

5) The champion is pretty much a waste of space imo.

6) If you don't take a command squad, then take the LRC as a dedicated transport to get OS.

if im not mistaken, then LR crusader has 6 lots of bolters twin linked......so having a dakka banner provides 24 twin linked shots.... its not there for the terms. i have a crap load of bikes i could use to add to my list.

i should have said in the post that i usually play vs chaos. and more infantry than armour. chainfists not needed.

as for the champ.. .. again vs chaos he becomes AP2 because of bane of the traitor.

the previous person said that knights will be pie plated. id be running on the turn I deepstrike as i can not charge. so they wont be in a pie formation........

65 points for an extra 12-18 bolter shots, which may be snap firing, doesn't sound worth it to me. Especially as it limits the movement of the terminators if you want to do it.
If you added bikes or at least another LRC then it might be ok.

The champion's halberd is ap2 anyway.....but so is a power fist or thunderhammer, and they are double the strength. I just don't see the appeal of it over a TH/SS.

If you only ever play against the same list then fine. But the day you run into a soul grinder or imperial knight, you will be glad to have a CF in there.

the previous person said that knights will be pie plated. id be running on the turn I deepstrike as i can not charge. so they wont be in a pie formation........

This work fine unless the opponent has interceptor pie plates. Specifically Tau ion-interceptor riptides.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
65 points for an extra 12-18 bolter shots, which may be snap firing, doesn't sound worth it to me. Especially as it limits the movement of the terminators if you want to do it.
If you added bikes or at least another LRC then it might be ok.

The champion's halberd is ap2 anyway.....but so is a power fist or thunderhammer, and they are double the strength. I just don't see the appeal of it over a TH/SS.

If you only ever play against the same list then fine. But the day you run into a soul grinder or imperial knight, you will be glad to have a CF in there.

the previous person said that knights will be pie plated. id be running on the turn I deepstrike as i can not charge. so they wont be in a pie formation........

This work fine unless the opponent has interceptor pie plates. Specifically Tau ion-interceptor riptides.

yea i play almost the same list each time. few changes now and then. i could take out the mace and a few TH SS per squad and then the champ and have 70 points. cant really get much for it... any ideas

Personally, I'd never go with all Deathwing without the Banner of Fortitude for the FNP. I think in your case you'd be far better with that than the few extra bolter shots, as it makes them Termies much better.

I think the Halberd is good for the at-init attacks which means he will swing at the same time as/before most units, rather then risking losing out on attacking.

I think you need to rethink the librarian all together. If you are taking him just to sit inside the tank, then get a tech marine instead. Certainly don't upgrade him to ML2, as you can only use witchfires from vehicles, and the landraider has no fireports.

If you replaced the librarian with a techmarine w/ pfg (no mace ofc), then it will save you 80 points. Take out the champion, add the 5 points you have left over, and it will leave you with 90 spare points, enough for another DW knight and terminator.

Or you could mix it up and get another landraider......Personally I wouldn't play DW at 2k without at least 2.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
I think you need to rethink the librarian all together. If you are taking him just to sit inside the tank, then get a tech marine instead. Certainly don't upgrade him to ML2, as you can only use witchfires from vehicles, and the landraider has no fireports.

If you replaced the librarian with a techmarine w/ pfg (no mace ofc), then it will save you 80 points. Take out the champion, add the 5 points you have left over, and it will leave you with 90 spare points, enough for another DW knight and terminator.

Or you could mix it up and get another landraider......Personally I wouldn't play DW at 2k without at least 2.

good spot. didnt think that part. im rethinking a dual wing list as we speak. i think i want a psyker and belial seems the obvious candidate, i do have an azrael but i can never work out how to get him in a list..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok i have redone a more duel winged list. i will place it as a new thread.