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I admittedly ended up looking at their stuff on FW and am now fighting the urge to go technocrazy (for now at least), but when trying to find out how they're doing when being played in 40k I couldn't find much (I barely found anything actually), so I gotta know: how are they to play? Are they fun? Is it fun to play against them?

The Mechanicum's rules are really meant for the Horus Heresy (30k) game. The main difference between 30k and 40k is that 30k is balanced for larger point games; FW intends you to play 2250-2500pt games of 30k. That sounds like a lot, but its really a result of most units in 30k games being worth a lot of points. While you can use a 30k army to play 40k, you're gonna have to nudge your opponents for games at the higher end of a regular 40k game size or you're going to be at a disadvantage.

Trying to use the 30k Mechanicum army list in 40k you're only going to feel this more so. With Mechanicum every unit costs a good number of points. Almost all their units play like elite units, they're all capable, and play in ways that feel different than any other Imperial unit. Some superficially seem similar to other Imperial units but once you start using them you see how different they play.

Take Thallax cohorts, they're a shooty unit with rad and lightning weapons, jet packs, and a special type of "power armor" that has a lower armor save but also a FnP save. Imperial armies don't really have this kind of mobile shootiness.

Even the Castellax Battle Automatta feels different from any other imperial walkers. With a single unit entry they run the gambit from a unit that plays like a beefed up sentinel squad that requires a handler to a solo "Paragon of metal" upgraded one that becomes a self sufficient wrecking ball.

Then you have Tech thralls, the soft squishy low men on the totem pole unit... they're on par with guardsmen but less capable offensively but a bit more survivable. They're a unit meant to be taken in a 20 model blob and have an invulnerable save due to their bionics. Their las-locks are S4 lasguns but they have an overall shorter range and fewer shots. They have a variety of fairly balanced upgrades that improve lethality and grant different abilities.

Before I get too long winded, there is a point. These are the Mechanicum's troop choices but you'll be paying 300-400 points for each without going to crazy on upgrades. Thus to fill requisite Troop choices you've spent a third to a half of your points. The prevailing wisdom of this edition is to try to spend as few point on Troops to save points for elsewhere. You'll be bucking that trend with this army as it isn't as necessary with mechanicum, but their other units are alot of fun.

Some general characteristics of the army:
-Invulnerable saves, most every unit has one even the vehicles; most vehicles also hve a self-repair capability... together they grant the army a different sort of army wide survivability.
-Expensive units, mean you'll tend to have fewer units than your opponents.
-With the exception of Tech-thralls every mechanicum unit has a relatively small number of models, meaning when directly engaged by an enemy unit, you're out numbered.
-Unconventionally lethality, unlike marines or guard, this army more widely makes use of weapons that rely as much on stats as they do on special rules, like fleshbane and shred which appear in a number of places on standard issue weapons.
-Even the conventional looking weapons aren't conventional... think that's a bolter, nope maxim bolters... Plasma guns, nope plasma fussils. Be careful, let your opponent know.

"Are they fun to play against?"
Yes! While FW has this reputation for broken units, its a misplaced reputation driven by one or two units in the entirety of the 100+ models FW has made. Even still those that are broken are less than the more common issue that come up in GW written codices. I feel more than most 40k armies the FW written lists are better balanced; playing for fun is easier. Because of the differences between 30k and 40k, I think you'll struggle against certain objective driven aspects of the new edition, but your army isn't going to be a push over either. Playing with and against Mechanicum brings variety, but I don't think you'll end up being able to vary the army much partially because of the limited number of units available, the limited number of units you can take, and the monetary expense of buying whole new units.

FW will rectify the first two of those by continuing to introduce new models and units as the Horus Heresy series progresses. One of the main Troops of the mechanicum still hasn't been given rules or models. I think they'll eventually introduce 40k era rules or support of some sort to help close those imbalances and gaps.

The points thing isn't an issue. I watched a game yesterday with two people playing an unbound Riptide army (13 Tides, some of which were FW) vs an IG Tank Company (Riptides won btw).

So big games aren't an issue.

But from the sound of things they sound reasonable, but I may hang off on getting them until they get more stuff (or Dark Mechanicum rules get released in full and my wallet gets beaten so hard that I'll have to buy a new one after giving it a Viking Funeral).

I think the monetary cost is going to be the biggest issues. The most basic mechanicum armies will set you back over $1000. Unless you've got a lot of disposable income you'll be buying them piece meal, but you won't really be able to really try any of it until you've spent a sizable amount. I recommend getting the rules and proxying units you're thinking of buying.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think the monetary cost is going to be the biggest issues. The most basic mechanicum armies will set you back over $1000. Unless you've got a lot of disposable income you'll be buying them piece meal, but you won't really be able to really try any of it until you've spent a sizable amount. I recommend getting the rules and proxying units you're thinking of buying.

Allies. It's possible to start using them first as allies.

And spending too much on an army is something I'd done before *coughSisterscough*. So it's not really that big of a deal for me in the long run. Plus getting an army in chunks like that would make them easier to have all painted up! For real for once.

Though I do get what you're saying. That's why I was looking into some input from other people.

What rule book can i find them(mechanicum) in?

 Pyeatt wrote:
What rule book can i find them(mechanicum) in?

Betrayal and the Massacre books all have rules, but the 3rd Heresy book is where the most complete army list to work with so far exists.

Much thanks

Well, AdMech can be slightly more "budget" if you take the path of paragons and other super-upgraded models, leaving you in an even lower body count of superior units-so you need less models.

Honestly though, I am not sure how balanced they in a 40k environment. the troop castallax is scary.

Another option if you wanted is to not use the actual Mechanicum rules and just use "counts as" of various Imperial forces and use the FW models to represent that. I'm making a Mechanicum army that's going to represent 5 different attachments of Imperial forces including Space Marines, Inquisition, Imperial Guard, Dark Angels and Imperial Knights.

As an example my myrmidon will be represented by a Chapter Master and his Honor Guard bodyguard, my Arch Magos Veneratus will be my Inquisitor, I'm going to represent Space Marines as Thallax Cohort and Guardsmen as Skittari.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, AdMech can be slightly more "budget" if you take the path of paragons and other super-upgraded models, leaving you in an even lower body count of superior units-so you need less models.

Honestly though, I am not sure how balanced they in a 40k environment. the troop castallax is scary.

The Thanatar with paragon of metal is a beast.

Fielding a unit of castallax is pricey and now that they don't fill compulsory troop choices it means you end up still needing two more units that will run you a good number of points. Still good, still worth taking just a little less fulfilling.

It should be said that the different Mechanicum lists that appear in Horus Heresy books build upon each other, giving us a more and more complete list but that it's still incomplete and each iteration has been intended to represent different organizations of the Mechanicum.

I think whenever we see a finished list there will be some rule variations based on sub-organization, for example where for Legio Cybernetica robots can be compulsory troops but for other groups like the Titan Legions or Skitarri they don't.

A couple of thoughts to help make it easier for you to use the Mechanicum list in 40K:

As there are so many special rules in the list, it can be very easy to miss one of them when describing them to your opponent. So, try to go a little easy on your opponents at first as it will be a lot to take in.

Also, try to avoid spamming the monstrous creatures. Some people will have problems with them, while others won't.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, AdMech can be slightly more "budget" if you take the path of paragons and other super-upgraded models, leaving you in an even lower body count of superior units-so you need less models.

Honestly though, I am not sure how balanced they in a 40k environment. the troop castallax is scary.

The Thanatar with paragon of metal is a beast.

Fielding a unit of castallax is pricey and now that they don't fill compulsory troop choices it means you end up still needing two more units that will run you a good number of points. Still good, still worth taking just a little less fulfilling.

It should be said that the different Mechanicum lists that appear in Horus Heresy books build upon each other, giving us a more and more complete list but that it's still incomplete and each iteration has been intended to represent different organizations of the Mechanicum.

I think whenever we see a finished list there will be some rule variations based on sub-organization, for example where for Legio Cybernetica robots can be compulsory troops but for other groups like the Titan Legions or Skitarri they don't.

They can no longer be the compolsury troops?

Well, this changes things a bit. no more "pure solo castallax spam"

 BoomWolf wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, AdMech can be slightly more "budget" if you take the path of paragons and other super-upgraded models, leaving you in an even lower body count of superior units-so you need less models.

Honestly though, I am not sure how balanced they in a 40k environment. the troop castallax is scary.

The Thanatar with paragon of metal is a beast.

Fielding a unit of castallax is pricey and now that they don't fill compulsory troop choices it means you end up still needing two more units that will run you a good number of points. Still good, still worth taking just a little less fulfilling.

It should be said that the different Mechanicum lists that appear in Horus Heresy books build upon each other, giving us a more and more complete list but that it's still incomplete and each iteration has been intended to represent different organizations of the Mechanicum.

I think whenever we see a finished list there will be some rule variations based on sub-organization, for example where for Legio Cybernetica robots can be compulsory troops but for other groups like the Titan Legions or Skitarri they don't.

They can no longer be the compolsury troops?

Well, this changes things a bit. no more "pure solo castallax spam"

They can't be compulsory in the most recent list, but in the Legio Cybernetica I think they can.

The second book as opposed to the third book allows them as compulsory troops but using that list you lose out on a lot of the bigger newer units.

Thallax have a 4+ and a 6+ FNP, so no invulnerable. I plan on eventually running a unit of 9 of them, but at lower numbers they are not that effective IMO. They have relatively short range, and even heavy bolters can negate their armour.

Thralls are awesome for the fact that you can take them in units of 20, upgrade their armour to a 4+ and get them fearless. They don't have an invulnerable save, but there is a way to get them a 5+ FNP, but seeing as how they are T3 that FNP may not be useful. They are by far the most expensive unit in 40k or 30k point for point. for 20 guys with fearless and carapace armour its 110 points, but model wise you are looking at almost a $150 USD.

Castellax are great in large groups, a Paragon of Metal Castellax can be killed pretty quickly with krak missiles, Tesla weapons are also good at wearing them down. In units of 4-5 they are incredibly hard to shift and seeing as how their main gun is assault 3 Str6 AP3 a codex marine player is going to hate seeing them.

Myrmidons both Secutors and Destructors are also very very strong.

Point wise, yes to get the good stuff you need to play 2k+ but I have played a 1500 point game where I have a Venator, which is an awesome tank, some myrmidons and Castellax.

Match up wise, they can suffer against normal 40k era armies. I was damn near tabled by Tau (although my dice rolling was atrocious), and soundly beaten by Necrons. There are a lot of special rules and a lot of the wargear is different, but ask yourself if you know all the rules in the Dark Eldar codex, or even better Sisters of Battle. It's the rarity of army combined with the unusual rules and wargear that bring the intimidation factor.

The guys I game with have never had a problem with me running my 30k stuff against them. In the last campaign we ran, my codex Imperial Fists uncovered an Ad Mech cadre that was buried on a world while fighting the Iron Warriors, thats how we explained why my Mechanicum was fighting alongside codex Marines and fighting against Tyranids,

Be wary of the Dark Mechanicum, I was at the Horus Heresy Weekender in Nottingham back in May and the word is the next book will not see vary many new models, the Dark Mechanicum will use the same models and kits that the regular Ad Mech uses, maybe with some tweaked rules.

Thralls are awesome for the fact that you can take them in units of 20, upgrade their armour to a 4+ and get them fearless. They don't have an invulnerable save, but there is a way to get them a 5+ FNP, but seeing as how they are T3 that FNP may not be useful. They are by far the most expensive unit in 40k or 30k point for point. for 20 guys with fearless and carapace armour its 110 points, but model wise you are looking at almost a $150 USD.

You can get them down to 4+ FNP if you have one of the special dudes with them, it's one of the paths for the priests.

But they are fun, I've seen someone mob them up with full Heavy Chainswords and use them as cheap S5 blockers.

I mean sure they might have issues in lower point games, but hey they are certainly a breath of fresh air when it comes to Imperium and Power Armor.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Thralls are awesome for the fact that you can take them in units of 20, upgrade their armour to a 4+ and get them fearless. They don't have an invulnerable save, but there is a way to get them a 5+ FNP, but seeing as how they are T3 that FNP may not be useful. They are by far the most expensive unit in 40k or 30k point for point. for 20 guys with fearless and carapace armour its 110 points, but model wise you are looking at almost a $150 USD.

You can get them down to 4+ FNP if you have one of the special dudes with them, it's one of the paths for the priests.

But they are fun, I've seen someone mob them up with full Heavy Chainswords and use them as cheap S5 blockers.

I mean sure they might have issues in lower point games, but hey they are certainly a breath of fresh air when it comes to Imperium and Power Armor.

That is the beauty of 30k, there are so many weapons that are AP3, everything in 30k is designed to kill marines.

The most nasty thing you can do is take 3 destructors with irradiation engines, I like to call them erasers , but they are also 250 points for the unit.

I know, no one asked, but I think any discussion on starting a Mechanicum army should address the Magos Prime. As the masters of arcane technologies you can only imagine the long list of wargear options they have... too much to go into. Beyond that you can select what order of the Mechanicum your Magos belong, ranging 20-35pts. Several of those Orders really alter how you'll approach the rest of the army

Archmandrite - Basically as the master fabricator of a forgeworld, he has all the best toys giving all vehicles in his detachment "It will not die" and a bonus to reserve rolls. That's a pretty nice bonus for a vehicle heavy army. For now their are only the Krios, Triaros, and supper heavies for vehicles... so there maybe limited use for now.

Lachrimallus- makes your magos the overseer of the forgeworld's labor, requiring you take a unit of Tech-thralls, he gets a better FnP for the trouble. The best for last, he is a sort of Chenkov... Any unit of Tech-thralls that's destroyed has a chance of being placed back into reserve, thus allowing a seemingly endless wave of techno-zombies.

Macrotek- these are master enginseers giving them a battlesmith reroll, the option of taking the enginseer/Techpriest Auxillia units as Troops and gains an additional fortification on the FOC. If you own Enginseers, servitors, and fortifications this could be a cheap option into starting your army. It should be noted that instead of just being a solo enginseer/techpriest with four servitors, its a bit of a doubled up unit with 2 enginseers and upto 8 servitors/servo-automata in a single squad. It does get better... the servitors are half the price as they are in other books and have a wider array of weapon options that allow you to tailor them to your use... one enginseer can be upgraded to a "Magos Auxillia" with a better BS and LD. The Techpriests in this squad get to pick for no cost to be "Enginseers" which make them the repairers we all know, "Lacrymarta" with a better FnP save conferred to them and servo-automata, as well as bonus to the FnP of nearby tech-thrall units, "Reductors" granting tank hunter, wrecker, and the ability to a graviton cannon or conversion beamer.

Just for completeness these are the last three but don't effect the army as much:
Malagra- these are the enforcers of doctrine, tasked with eliminating Magos whose logic goes astray. Preferred enemy (character), monster hunter, and stat bonuses. Pretty straight forwardly his best use is going after big bads.

Myrmadex- king Myrmidon, with all their advantages but without being Bulky. He also has a better precision shot.

Ordinator - master of "unmaking"... all his attacks gain tank hunter and wrecker, he also has a once per game D3 pie plates S8 Ap3 bombardment of unlimited range.