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Someone recently brought up an interesting debate which I thought I'd run by you guys.

Here's the scenario. A group of immortals with an attached Veiltek, held in reserves. Can this unit deepstrike onto the battlefield the turn it arrives?


The wording of the Veil is as follows:

"A Cryptek with a vod can use it in its Movement phase instead of moving normally. The cryptek and his unit are removed from the tabletop and immediately Deep Strike back onto the battlefield. The vod cannot be used if the Cryptek or his unit are locked in combat".


Here we can see the vod doesn't confer the Deepstrike USR, and because it replaces the move action of the cryptek's squad it would at first glance appear as though 'No the immortals cannot arrive via deepstrike'.

However here comes the rules entanglement.

In the Rulebook for reserves (p135 & 136) it says the following:

"At the start of your second turn, you must roll a D6 for each unit in your army that is being held in reserve... When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as described below. Then pick another arriving unit, and deploy it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal. Note that you must first roll for all reserves, and then move any arriving reserves, before any other units can move."

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The question here then is whether or not the arrival of the unit from deepstrike is part of the 'start of turn' phase, or part of the movement phase. The wording could be argued to go either way. If it is part of the start of turn phase, then it would reasonable to say that because the unit can then no longer move during the movement phase, the unit cannot swap out its move with a deepstrike action from the vod. If however it is part of the movement phase, then there's nothing to suggest that this action could not be the subject of a vod swap-out. The fact that the vod contains the words 'remove from the tabletop' is not given as a prerequisite or a cost, so it would count as a move action that could in principle be replaced.


So - which one is it?

I would say being on the table is a prerequisite;
'The cryptek and his unit are removed from the tabletop and immediately Deep Strike back onto the battlefield'

Removing them from the tabletop to DS back onto the tabletop is a impossibility if they are not on the tabletop to begin with.

I will note that in previous editions it was allowed (via FAQ). However, that was then. This is now.

 Happyjew wrote:
I will note that in previous editions it was allowed (via FAQ). However, that was then. This is now.

Without the FAQ - you need to be on the table so until it's readded, you can't come in from reserves via the veil or ghostwalk mantle teleporting.

FAQs really only help clarify rules at times. They are not rules themselves and the removal of them does not necessarily make the rule any less valid.

The previous FAQs stance was that a veil of darkness could be used instead of movement. Therefore when coming on from reserve, a player can elect to use a veil of darkness instead of moving onto the board.

That would be true if Game Workshop wasn't the company producing the Frequently Asked Questions. Every long-term poster here likely has their own favorite example where Game Workshop used a Frequently Asked Question to change a Written Rules instead of creating Errata like they should of. Mine is when they stripped the Building Rules from Battlements in 6th: The Question didn't even have anything to do with the Battlements being a Building! It also allowed Tanks to use Access Points to Embark into a Battlement as a side effect, leading me to scream '40K tanks can climb ladders' until Stronghold turned Battlements into Ruins....

 xandermacleod wrote:
Someone recently brought up an interesting debate which I thought I'd run by you guys.

Here's the scenario. A group of immortals with an attached Veiltek, held in reserves. Can this unit deepstrike onto the battlefield the turn it arrives?


The wording of the Veil is as follows:

"A Cryptek with a vod can use it in its Movement phase instead of moving normally.

RAW? No*.

The Cryptek can use it instead of moving normally. If he has moved at all, or doesn't have a normal movement allowed, he can't use it.
Walking on from reserves? He used his movement.
If he deepstrikes in from reserves through some other means, he has also already moved and therefore can not "move" again, even with that power.


If accurately quoted and explicitly worded as "immediately deep strike", so the other arguments against it (did it start in reserves? does it have the DS rule?) aren't applicable - unlike with Gate of Infinity/Skyleap/etc.

*One possible exception here is for transported units though: If he rides in on a transport that moves 6" or less he has a disembark move allowed normally - so maybe there?

The question comes down to, is the movement onto the board in the movement phase? This is hard to judge based off of how the reserves rules are written. On one hand we are told that the unit cannot use any start of the turn abilities, which would imply they are moving in the movement phase. On the other we are told to complete all rules for start of your turn before the movement phase which would imply they arrive at the start of your turn. Reserves also states that we also move all other units..... Personally I read it as the roll happens at the start of the turn but the movement happens in the movement phase.