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I often rate AT units on how effective they are at taking out the dreaded serpent. For its points (160 + 40 if wanting lascannon sponsoons), is there a better choice for anti-serp in the game?
6 twinlinked, tank hunting, rending, ignores jink, st7 shots + 2 tank hunting lascannon shots if you have invested the 40pts in those. With av13 all round.
Whilst a stormtek + veiltek royal court can take one out with even more overkill, they tend to be dead the next turn, whilst the Sicaran will still be taking out a serp a turn.
Apart from far more expensive LoW, or units which require assault, I can't personally think of anything better. Is there anything else?
It is also pretty nifty at taking out any other mech in the game too.


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Also forgot to mention the 4+ against haywire and the optional +20pts for ceremite.

Hive Guard perhaps? A full squad is roughly the same amount of points but throws out 6 S8 ignore cover shots that do not require line of sight (best defense against shooting in general is to just not be targetable to begin with). T6 isn't as resilient as AV13, but they do have secondary survivability mechanics to fall back on (4+ Armor, FNP, Cover + Shrouded, indirect fire).

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Hive Guard perhaps? A full squad is roughly the same amount of points but throws out 6 S8 ignore cover shots that do not require line of sight (best defense against shooting in general is to just not be targetable to begin with). T6 isn't as resilient as AV13, but they do have secondary survivability mechanics to fall back on (4+ Armor, FNP, Cover + Shrouded, indirect fire).

What's the range of the sicaran vs hive guard? a 24" range for HG means you are likely only getting them in shooting range from turn 2-3 onwards

I imagine some sort of tau using 2 markerlights to ignore cover would be up there.

The other thing that could really help is a long-range threat like an LR Vanquisher. Something that can have range on all the serpents and make them all worried about shooting their shield, where a short range unit would only deterr the ones nearby.

Lost and the damned. Equip with combi-melta, melta, and multi-melta.

3x Melta shots with ignores cover will do work.

The serpent's only defense is to remain against the board edge and not fire the serpent shield. This limits the unit's ability to use its transport capacity or most damaging weapons. And you still have a shot at killing it by
stripping hull points.

If your luck is good with deep strikes a Scion command squad with melta that gives itself the order to ignore cover, but both they and the lost and damned would likely die before being able to take down a second serpent.

Space wolves pod list with two meltas and a combi-melta in about half the pods. Turns the game into an infantry fight right quick.

Terror from the Deep wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Hive Guard perhaps? A full squad is roughly the same amount of points but throws out 6 S8 ignore cover shots that do not require line of sight (best defense against shooting in general is to just not be targetable to begin with). T6 isn't as resilient as AV13, but they do have secondary survivability mechanics to fall back on (4+ Armor, FNP, Cover + Shrouded, indirect fire).

What's the range of the sicaran vs hive guard? a 24" range for HG means you are likely only getting them in shooting range from turn 2-3 onwards

I wouldn't even go that far. Hive Guard are BS3, that means 3 hits per full brood, glance on a 4, pen on a 5 or 6 and no AP bonus means it'll take one unit of Hive Guard 2-3 turns to kill one WS.

No, Hive Guard are nowhere near the level of the Sicaran Battle Tank. I think if a Dakka Flyrant (esp. with warp blast) got rear armor on a Serp, it would probably do work but I doubt that'll happen and then you still have to worry about jink.

Poly Ranger wrote:
With av13 all round.
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.

Afriad its 13 12 12.

It got FAQ'd.

Sicarans are incredible tanks, that's why I take 3.

 Wilson wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
With av13 all round.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
.

Afriad its 13 12 12.

It got FAQ'd.

Sicarans are incredible tanks, that's why I take 3.

Was this after IA:2 second edition? Because in the second edition they are av13 all round.


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Terror from the Deep wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Hive Guard perhaps? A full squad is roughly the same amount of points but throws out 6 S8 ignore cover shots that do not require line of sight (best defense against shooting in general is to just not be targetable to begin with). T6 isn't as resilient as AV13, but they do have secondary survivability mechanics to fall back on (4+ Armor, FNP, Cover + Shrouded, indirect fire).

What's the range of the sicaran vs hive guard? a 24" range for HG means you are likely only getting them in shooting range from turn 2-3 onwards

48" range. Should have included that in the OP tbf.


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As to the suggestions of deepstriking ignores cover melta. I still think the sicaran wins out for three reasons.

1. Its shooting from turn 1.
2. With tank hunter and tl it gets 2.96 hullpoints on a serp (not inc lascannon) on average compared to 1.83 hull points with 3 bs4 meltas. With the shield up this makes a big difference.
And most importantly 3. Once the melta squad has been dropped off and taken its initial shots - further serps can stay out of range of later melta shots. They cannot do this against the sicaran.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME TWO – SECOND EDITION
CLARIFICATIONS AND ERRATA – UPDATED 20-12-2013
ERRATA
Relic Sicaran Battle Tank (page 79)
The Side and Rear Armour values of the Relic Sicaran Battle Tank are 12.

But they are still awesome, which is why I ordered one.
Perhaps some more in the future after I have my Fire Raptor Gunship.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Whilst a stormtek + veiltek royal court can take one out with even more overkill,

Also forgot to mention the 4+ against haywire and the optional +20pts for ceremite.

He eats Stormteks for breakfast

Jefffar wrote:
Space wolves pod list with two meltas and a combi-melta in about half the pods. Turns the game into an infantry fight right quick.

How does that list prevent the serpents from being on the other side of the map next turn? Two melta shots won't reliably pop much since you have to hit the back or come down on a turn they fired shields. Also you have no way of negating Jink.

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME TWO – SECOND EDITION
CLARIFICATIONS AND ERRATA – UPDATED 20-12-2013
ERRATA
Relic Sicaran Battle Tank (page 79)
The Side and Rear Armour values of the Relic Sicaran Battle Tank are 12.

But they are still awesome, which is why I ordered one.
Perhaps some more in the future after I have my Fire Raptor Gunship.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Whilst a stormtek + veiltek royal court can take one out with even more overkill,

Also forgot to mention the 4+ against haywire and the optional +20pts for ceremite.

He eats Stormteks for breakfast

Ah cheers for that!

Yeh I meant the stormteks for anti-serp duty. Although the 4+ against haywire is a nice buff when combined with ceremite.

As to the fire raptor - I can't decide which I like more on paper, that or the Roc pattern stormeagle! The storm Eagle effectively has the fire power of 2 twinlinked dev squads, whilst the fire raptor can shoot at FOUR different units :-o. Plus the fire raptors rockets are ap2 - even if they are only one shot. Which of the two do you think would benefit most from monster hunter via the war of murder legacy?


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Also - strafing run on both... just amazing!

Mavnas wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Space wolves pod list with two meltas and a combi-melta in about half the pods. Turns the game into an infantry fight right quick.

How does that list prevent the serpents from being on the other side of the map next turn? Two melta shots won't reliably pop much since you have to hit the back or come down on a turn they fired shields. Also you have no way of negating Jink.

3 per pod, pods start dropping turn one and are good at finding ttheir war into tight places. Cargo can move 6inches on disembark before they fire to help set up the rear armour shots. Probability should handle the rest if you did get rear armour.

If it didn't, next pod that comes down can finish it off.

How can it get tank hunters, I didn't realise it had that special rule?

Nothing's better than ork boyz in a battlewagon at taking out serpents...or most other things.

Poly Ranger wrote:
As to the fire raptor - I can't decide which I like more on paper, that or the Roc pattern stormeagle! The storm Eagle effectively has the fire power of 2 twinlinked dev squads, whilst the fire raptor can shoot at FOUR different units :-o. Plus the fire raptors rockets are ap2 - even if they are only one shot. Which of the two do you think would benefit most from monster hunter via the war of murder legacy?

No idea, as a Blood Angel-player I can't use the ROC-pattern Storm Eagle (I think), so I never really looked at it.

Razerous wrote:
How can it get tank hunters, I didn't realise it had that special rule?

Take a look at page 244 of IA2-SE, to the Legacies of Glory.

Razerous wrote:
How can it get tank hunters, I didn't realise it had that special rule?

It is a legacy you can purchace for 25pts. It gives it tank hunter, bs5 against demon engines and a 4+ againsthaywire.


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Kangodo wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
As to the fire raptor - I can't decide which I like more on paper, that or the Roc pattern stormeagle! The storm Eagle effectively has the fire power of 2 twinlinked dev squads, whilst the fire raptor can shoot at FOUR different units :-o. Plus the fire raptors rockets are ap2 - even if they are only one shot. Which of the two do you think would benefit most from monster hunter via the war of murder legacy?

No idea, as a Blood Angel-player I can't use the ROC-pattern Storm Eagle (I think), so I never really looked at it.

Razerous wrote:
How can it get tank hunters, I didn't realise it had that special rule?

Take a look at page 244 of IA2-SE, to the Legacies of Glory.

Im BA too. But im either going to collect a new SM army heavily using IA:2 (I have enough unpainted models to save me enough money if I go down this route), or just use my BA as 'counts as' now and again.

This tank is a SM only vehicle? So it would ally or extra FOC for other armies?

Jefffar wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Space wolves pod list with two meltas and a combi-melta in about half the pods. Turns the game into an infantry fight right quick.

How does that list prevent the serpents from being on the other side of the map next turn? Two melta shots won't reliably pop much since you have to hit the back or come down on a turn they fired shields. Also you have no way of negating Jink.

3 per pod, pods start dropping turn one and are good at finding ttheir war into tight places. Cargo can move 6inches on disembark before they fire to help set up the rear armour shots. Probability should handle the rest if you did get rear armour.

If it didn't, next pod that comes down can finish it off.

3 shots averages out to two hits on a thing that can jink for a 3+. So 2/3rds of a chance of stripping a hull point 2/9th of exploding. You've now spent about an equal number of points denying a turn of shooting and forcing them to reposition or kill your squad. If you don't get rear armor... LOL.

I like drop pods, but the contents aren't very mobile once they land.

If you really wanted to try to make drop pod melta a thing, you'd need an allied sisters of battle squad with 5 melta shots and ignores cover for a turn.

Razerous wrote:
This tank is a SM only vehicle? So it would ally or extra FOC for other armies?

Yep that's the case!

Probably not, but Space Marine Bike Squads are also unreasonably good at it.