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Ok, now I know that there was a thread about this fairly recently, but when I tried to post to it I got a message telling me not to commit thread necromancy because everyone will think I'm a jerk, thus I am choosing to follow that message's advice.

So last week I played a game of Undead vs Empire. I had Nagash leading my Undead force. At one point, he was able to charge a unit of three Demigryphs, which each have W3. As you're all probably aware, Nagash's magic sword does Multi-Wound D3, among other things.

Nagash swings first. I go through the process, and four of his attacks manage to get through saves. At this point, I begin applying the Multi-Wound effect. The first one does 2 wounds. So then I said "ok, well the next one will do at least one, so that model is dead, and I'll move on to the third roll." At this point, my opponent cocks his head and looks at me confused. It was a just friendly game so neither of us bothered to push the issue. But now in hindsight I'm thinking he's right and I didn't do that totally correctly.

Now, in that other thread to which I referred earlier, it sounded like I possibly shorted myself. Should I have just rolled 4D3 and then applied them to most efficiently remove whole models? Let's say I rolled a 1, 1, 3, 3, in that order. Should the result be 2 dead Demigryhps and the survivor with 2 wounds suffered; or just two dead (1+1+3= one dead, and then 3 on the second)? Or C: none of the above?

Thanks!

From my memory you roll all four dice at once, then it's your opponents decision which models he allocates the wounds too.

 DarthBinky wrote:
Ok, now I know that there was a thread about this fairly recently, but when I tried to post to it I got a message telling me not to commit thread necromancy because everyone will think I'm a jerk, thus I am choosing to follow that message's advice.

So last week I played a game of Undead vs Empire. I had Nagash leading my Undead force. At one point, he was able to charge a unit of three Demigryphs, which each have W3. As you're all probably aware, Nagash's magic sword does Multi-Wound D3, among other things.

Nagash swings first. I go through the process, and four of his attacks manage to get through saves. At this point, I begin applying the Multi-Wound effect. The first one does 2 wounds. So then I said "ok, well the next one will do at least one, so that model is dead, and I'll move on to the third roll." At this point, my opponent cocks his head and looks at me confused. It was a just friendly game so neither of us bothered to push the issue. But now in hindsight I'm thinking he's right and I didn't do that totally correctly.

Now, in that other thread to which I referred earlier, it sounded like I possibly shorted myself. Should I have just rolled 4D3 and then applied them to most efficiently remove whole models? Let's say I rolled a 1, 1, 3, 3, in that order. Should the result be 2 dead Demigryhps and the survivor with 2 wounds suffered; or just two dead (1+1+3= one dead, and then 3 on the second)? Or C: none of the above?

Thanks!

Your example from your game is correct. The first one does 2 wounds and the second d3 will kill the model and waste anything higher and then you can move on.

You would have had 2 dead models.
Essentially it works as rolling each separately.
1st dice does one wound, second does 1 wound, 3rd does 3 wounds but the model only has 1 left so 2 get wasted. 4th kills the second model

Now had the order been different say 3, 3, 1, 1
You would have 2 dead with a 3rd model only having 1 wound left.

There was a very good example given in another thread. I'll see if I can find it.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Credit here to Cawizkid for this post....

I wound multiplier does not give you more attacks, it makes wounds stronger. A single attack hits harder. A single attack can only hit one model at a time. Multiple wound models are basically able to take more damage before they die. A wound multiplier counters this.

So lets brake this down to clean this up., Multiple wounds attacks against multiple wounds models states that a model cannot take more wounds than it has on its profile.. So I will use the following Examples.
Old blood, --> Paranha blade. Attacks Rank and file single wound Models and Monstrous Infantry Multiple wound models (Example: Ogre).

1st. single wound models

Old blood makes 5 attacks. Hits with 4, wounds with 3 = 3 dead Models. These are single wound models, the multiplier is canceled, 1, 2, or 3 wounds from multiplier still kills one model.

2nd. Multiple wound models: Scenario 1

Again Old blood makes 5 attacks, hits with 4, wounds with 3. Now that you have rolled the multipliers, you pick up the first dice, roll you D3. Let’s say you roll a 4, one Ogre takes 2 wounds, leaves 1 wound left, you now pick up that second dice, Roll a 6. This wounded Ogre only has 1 wound left out of his starting 3, so all 3 of those multiplied wounds go to finish off that Ogre. You have 1 roll left, no matter what you roll that damage goes to a 2nd Ogre, leaving you with up to 2 dead Ogres.

Multiple wound models: Scenario 2

Again Old blood makes 5 attacks. Hits with 4, wounds with 3 = X wounds on Ogres. Now that you have rolled to wound, you pick up the first dice, roll you D3. This time you roll a 6. You have one dead Ogre. You roll 5, you have 2 dead Ogres. You roll a 1 you cause 1 wound to a 3rd ogre.

Multiple wounds D6.

Model caries a Multiple wound D6 weapon. (Non War machine) Attacking only rank and file.

Model makes 4 attacks. hits and wounds with all 4 attacks. Following the same as above , Against single wound models you cause 4 wounds. No model can take more than one wound from a multiplier.

Again Model makes 4 attacks. hits and wounds with all 4 attacks. Against Multiple wound models you now pick up those 4 dice and roll them 1 at a time and apply the Multiplier 1 at a time. So you roll in order, 4, 2, 3, 6. While this looks like this might be 15 wounds it is not. You do not apply them like that, the first model, gets 4 wounds applied, but can only take 3 and dies, 1 wound is lost. A 2nd model take the 2 wounds and is left with 1, then the 3rd attack for 3 wounds is applied for only 1 more wound bringing him to 3 wounds and is dead, 2 lost wounds, the last attack is applied to a 3rd model taking 3 of the 6 wounds and dies, with the last 3 lost. So you do a total of 9 wounds to the unit not 15 as a model cannot take more wounds than it has in its profile.

This is about as clear as it gets based on the rules.

Ok but if I'm rolling to hit all at the same time (ie I pick up 7 dice and roll them all at once), and rolling to wound all at the same time (pick up all the successful hit dice and roll them all at once), and he's rolling his saves all in one batch (same principle as the others), why would I suddenly be rolling one at a time, in succession, for the multiwound? Where does it say that I have to roll them successively rather than in a group?

The closest I can find in the rulebook is the last paragraph under the Multiple Wounds rule, but that seems to be saying that you roll for each wound, rather than just rolling one and applying that result to each wound (ie in my game, I roll 4D3 rather than 1D3, getting a 2 and considering all four to have done 2).

You are rolling them separately because you are told to.

BRB PG 45 under Multi-wound models and multi-wound weapons.

If a unit of creatures with more than 1 wound on their profile is hit by a weapon that causes multiple wounds, determine how many wounds are caused on each model individually.

Therefore you have to wound each model on its own until it is dead, then move onto the next just like the examples above.

Multi wound and multi wound, bottom of 45.

"add up all wounds caused on the UNIT and then remove the appropriate number of MODELS, noting spare wounds."

So as I see it.

hits (e.g., 10)
S-T test (6 unblocked)
armor/ward (4 unblocked)
4*(multiwound) = 2,2,3,3 = 10 wounds
3 ogres dead and 2 wounds remaining on one

I think what you listed first is just way too many dice.

As above

You dont wound individual models with multiwounds on multiwound models, you instead create a pool of wounds that then kill the appropriate number of models. The only real caveat is that if Nagash did Multiple Wounds (D6) instead, you can never add, from one roll., more wounds to the pool than the models have. So RnF Ogres you could roll a 6, and you would still only add 3 wounds too the pool.

So if you rolled, with Nagash, these wounds:
2, 3, 1, 1

You have 7 wounds sitting in a pool, so 2 demigrpyh dead and the remaining models have 1 wound sitting in the pool. The next two wounds scored will then kill another model, but until then it isnt assigned to any one model in particular - it is ajust a wound the unit has.

Ok so it's basically the way I thought it worked after I thought about it after the game. I should have just rolled 4D3 and applied to the unit.

Thanks, all.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above

You dont wound individual models with multiwounds on multiwound models, you instead create a pool of wounds that then kill the appropriate number of models. The only real caveat is that if Nagash did Multiple Wounds (D6) instead, you can never add, from one roll., more wounds to the pool than the models have. So RnF Ogres you could roll a 6, and you would still only add 3 wounds too the pool.

So if you rolled, with Nagash, these wounds:
2, 3, 1, 1

You have 7 wounds sitting in a pool, so 2 demigrpyh dead and the remaining models have 1 wound sitting in the pool. The next two wounds scored will then kill another model, but until then it isnt assigned to any one model in particular - it is ajust a wound the unit has.

I see. That makes sense. Just be sure that you cap wounds into the pool at the max wound of a single model or you will be doing too much damage.
This does appear accurate.
My error.

Not sure what you mean. Like...if I do D6 wounds per hit, and hit three times, I can still only kill a max of three models?
So, I roll 5, 4, and 6. That's enough to take out 5 Demigryphs, but I should only be able to kill 3 knights. Right?

Exactly, your multiple wound rolls are capped at the "W" value on the profiles

From my understanding, you keep rolling your multi wounds on one model until it's dead, then move onto the next. In my mind, it's kind of like how the dead are removed from the back ranks, it's just there to make the game flow a bit better.

Your understanding is wrong mate
this topic is beaten to death every month or so, with the same rules put forward and explained ... every ... time