Redseer wrote:
The imperium is not as advanced as it was in the dark age and that tech is mostly lost or destroyed. Current imperial tech is not quite as good as the tau. If you want an example look at plasma technology that can blow up killing the shooter.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Except the Tau are NOT mass producing stuff. They only have to equip a few million soldiers.

The Imperium has billions and billions of soldiers.

The Tau have not "mastered" plasma. The only people who could claim that would be the Eldar. Who have plasma just as strong as the Imperium, but its also safe.

Imperial plasma is of equal tech to the Tau. The Tau just deliberately make weaker weapons because they don't want there to be any chance of the weapon injuring the wielder. Imperial plasma is stronger, but slightly dangerous.

This isn't a problem when soldiers are expendable.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:




Which brings me to the Celestial Orrery. I have had a theory about this for a long time. The Necrons are manipulators of the warp, they use warp portals all the time to teleport. All they would need to do to cause a supernova is open up a small warp portal on a star, wait a bit, then close it. Doing so would strip the star of some of its mass, thus causing a supernova by reducing the gravity of the star relative to the force of its reaction. Not sure how you'd blow up a star otherwise, but that would certainly be an easy way in a universe with teleportation technology based on transitioning through the warp. They could just teleport a bit of the sun away, and voila, supernova. The Tau could do it if they had higher understanding of warp-tech. The supernova thing wouldn't be the problem, the galaxy-wide near-instantaneous communication to machines capable of causing supernovas would be; something that would be possible with warp manipulation.

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I believe the Necron FTL method involves bending space. Much like how Star Trek "warp" drives work.

Thus you never ever actually exceed the speed of light, but cross vast distances. And no time distortion either.

And so the Necrons can cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye without using the Warp.

and yet if they can move faster than entities that use the warp, how is it that they lost?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's a good median. How about this, how advanced is the average tech, tau still win on that one.

ok first of all sometimes it gets hard to describe something as nessscarily being more advanced. one needs to step back and look at the context. the IoM has lots of high tech, but doesn't nesscarily deploy it because lives are cheap. it's easier just to produce basic easy to make stuff in HUGE numbers, and bury their opponents under weight of numbers (space Marines represent the kind of equipment you could expect from the IoM if they took a "every life is precious let's equip our guys in the best way we can money is no object!" mentality)

the Tau and IoM have a VERY VERY VERY VERY differnt approuch to logistics. you IMHO can't really compare the two. the Tau basicly equip their troops with some of the best tech they have. the IoM equips their troops with the MOST RELIABLE tech they have.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the USSR had a lot of soldiers. Hey, this reminds me of something.

The M16 and its variants are made by dozens of manufactures around the world, to the highest standards "the goal of which is to ensure that products designed for military use meet the necessary requirements with regard to quality, durability, ruggedness, commonality, interchangeability, total cost of ownership, logistics and other military and defense-related objectives."

The AK-47 was designed to be a cheap, simple, easy to manufacture assault rifle,[272] perfectly matching Soviet military doctrine that treats equipment and weapons as disposable items.

At peak production, Colt's manufacturing capacity was approximately 333,000 units per year

At peak production, Kalashnikov Concern (formerly Izhmash)[1] can produce around 95 units per hour (about 832,000 units per year).

 Wyzilla wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Indeed. The closest real world equivalent I could think of is NATO and the USSR.

NATO gives it's soldiers the best tech they can acquire. The USSR gave their soldiers reliable but fairly basic armaments.

This isn't really true. The various top level armaments and munitions for the USSR and NATO were roughly the same with only tactical goals defining a difference ie. Abrams were made to be fast and multi-roled while T80 were made for massed tank warfare on the European front.

The top level planes were similarly effective, though NATO often had more of the newest versions due to having a larger population.

On the soldier level, there was no difference in performance for infantry weapons. An M4 and an AK105 are about the same in terms of potential suppression and killing. M16 were about the same as AKM.

And from a logistics perspective I'd happily take an AKM over an M16A1. AKM's are hardier and easier to clean, do a lot more damage if they hit (and arguably the greater mass of the bullet probably has a slightly better ability to suppress), plus it penetrates better than the 5.56. The only downfall of the AK's is that with the larger caliber (excluding the AK-74, which IIRC is the same caliber as NATO 5.56), they're harder to control when shooting.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


They are heavier and less accurate though, and the M16 is a bit more ergonomic. For long campaigns the AK is probably better though.

The AM is also a lot more reliable. An M-16 jams easily without constant cleaning. An AK is tougher, handles sand and snow better.

A jammed M-16 is slightly behind par with a steel-tipped spear.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because they're space-Communists. There's no personal property in Communism.

However, if we want to compare median infantry to median infantry between the Tau and the Imperium, we'd need a breakdown of their organizational charts. While the FW is the baseline Tau soldier... how many Kroot or Vespid or insert-other-member-species-here do they actually field, compared to the Fire Warriors? Obviously, the FW get the focus since that's the product line, but in-universe, do 100 FW show up to support 50,000 Vespid Swarm-Warriors? This would put the FW more on the level of Stormtroopers or even Space Marines.

Hotshot lasgun is S3 Ap3. Neutron blaster is S5 Ap 3.

 Desubot wrote:
That's quite a leap in conclusion

Whats wrong with a predator?

Standardized chassis for easy replacement
good armament with standard sized rounds that are simple to make?
decent firepower for what it is

Realizing it was made to combat orks which doesn't give that much time for prep and can spout out anywhere.

seems like a great idea for accessibility rather than having to overhall EVERy manucatorium to build a brand new hover chassis for some sort of benefit..

 Wyzilla wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
What is wrong with the tracks? For all the technology the tau have, they aren't capable of armoring their tanks to reach even the basic level of the Leman Russ. There are sacrifices that are made for anything, and when you compare even the best tau tanks to the basic battle tank of the DAOT, the Baneblade, there is no comparison. They were designed for different things. Tau trade armor for versatility. The Imperium seeks durability.

Tracks are fine, just that the Imperium has a strange habit of leaving them exposed or worse yet, give them no suspension.

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

... but wouldn't it make sense that all human vehicles lack night vision tech because the race that actually built them didn't need it? That'd explain why they have to strap on searchlights.

one thing to keep in mind is the way the STC system worked is it was used on a planet and would spit out plans for something upon request that would be adapted to work in the local enviroment. thus a lot if not msot STC designs likely aren't made with the best technology, but for the nesscary requirements of the local enviroment. The Rhino for example, likely was something intended to be easy to build. and the type of thing a struggling colony with a poor tech base could build in it's garage as needed. and rememebr that stuff is now lost. and the IoM is absicly running around trying to find copies of designs spat out by those things people have written down. Which means the IoM likely isn't manafacturing the best stuff.

Effectivly they're building a Military using plans for a T-38 Talon trainer as their main combat craft. a Brinks armored car as their APC, a sherman Tank as their primary tank, etc.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sherman's a bit generous. They're more like the Bob Semple Tank.

Not even close dude.

The Bob Semple is basically what orks make.

The Sherman is actually a perfect analog to the Lemun Russ. Its cheap and easy to manufacture in very large quantities. Sure, its not the best tank you could make, but its more than adequate. And any shortcomings in its design are compensated by you having 10 of them for every 1 tank your opponent has.