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I feel like they are such a letdown as they are worse than boyz in every way. Even their better BS is offset by a weaker gun. Is there any place for them in a competitive list and if so what do they do? Every time I try to use them they are butchered by everything...

Satisfying troop requirements and piles can make elite lists chase them as they secure objectives.

4+ cover saves for a turn

Yeah, cheap mobile cover for your boyz and unlocking CADs

With no cover save from KFF you take grits for an awesome screen. Also, they can be the kind of buffer that can help you get an assault with units behind the grots.

Yeah, you can use them as a speed bump so your boyz dont get denied furious charge.

How should they be run?

Absolutely. I take 10 in front of every large boyz blob for a super cheap cover save and free eating of reaction fire/protection from counter assault

And I take 3 extra groups of 10 as objective holders/bullet sponges.

Don't they also work as tarpits? Bring massive numbers of them, place them on an objective, and watch as that 10 man squad of space marines has to fight through 30 Grots. Those 30 running out? Replace them with another 30!

Don't want an army full of Grots and need to keep that Bloodthirster off your ladz? Get some Boyz to cover objectives, and have a glorious grot charge to tie up the unit in melee. If you're quick enough, it can even work with shootier units too!

A friend used them in a small tourney, and they actually played a big part in his games. He just held them back and used them to hold his home objective, while her threw everything else forward.

They can do a lot of things actually. Pretty much what everyone has already mentioned. I like to run them in squads of 29, so I don't have to buy the third runtherd, and with a squig hound on one of the other runtherds so they don't break very often. I usually just keep them in the back camping on objectives and going to ground when shot at.

But now everything is scoring so you don't need Grots to be your campers

Troops. And the cheapest single unit in the game for what 40 points for 10 wounds with rerollable morale?

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
But now everything is scoring so you don't need Grots to be your campers

True, everything scores now. That doesn't mean they're no longer useful. You may not need them to score, but in an army where there are few reliable heavily armored units, they do still retain their use as meatshields.

But they die so easy... Why not use boyz as meat shields for 20 more points you get a shield that can actually do something and has T4

If I use Grots, I use them mostly for backfield holding. They work good if objectives are placed in juicy LOS blocking terrain. A buddy of mine foolishly put an objective behind a barricade that was taller than the Grots, so my 10 Grot squad sat on it most of the game because he couldn't shoot them off. (Can't shoot what you can't see). He ignored them most of the game since he didn't want to waste a unit to run up the field to try to murder them.

They can be useful. I just think it's a huge missed opportunity by GW to ignore them yet again. If they could get some kind of upgrade, or we had access to more 'grot units' to really make me want to field them more often. Even something like Grot Snipers would be awesome.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
But they die so easy... Why not use boyz as meat shields for 20 more points you get a shield that can actually do something and has T4

Because Grots force your opponent to choose, while having more Boyz is an easy problem to solve. If you use Grots, they either have to A.) Kill the Grot Shield to deny further cover saves to the Boyz you are shielding. Or B). Let them live in order to TRY to damage the Boyz they are walking in front of.

If they let the Grots live, the Grots can then actually put their shooting to use, can break formation to run for an objective and clear the way for the Boyz to charge in, or actually try to hold off a shooty unit for a turn or two and give the Boyz more turns without being pelted with gunfire.

If you choose Boyz to make a shield, they just shoot the Boyz, and you're losing twice the points per model and those Boyz should have been either in a transport or doing something productive. Don't waste valuable Boyz as a meat shield unit unless they are trying to meat shield something worth the investment. Grots aren't perfect, but they have minor uses. Plus, they are dirt cheap tax if you need more Force Org.

But if they shoot the Grots they get wounded on 2s so they'll get wrecked every time they're shot at. You'll only lose half as many boyz. I agree about them needing more love from GW, and it's pretty funny to consider their size when running them...

They're completely useless in a fight but they're useful by simply being there. People tend to ignore grots. And when they suddenly block a way to something like an imperial knight, they have a potential to win you games.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/615982.page

They offer plenty of tactical options.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
But if they shoot the Grots they get wounded on 2s so they'll get wrecked every time they're shot at. You'll only lose half as many boyz. I agree about them needing more love from GW, and it's pretty funny to consider their size when running them...

Actually, while Boyz are tougher, keep in mind:

- Grots have higher BS than Boyz.

- They come in massive numbers.

- While Boyz are more durable, 6+ isn't that big of an improvement.

- Their size means they can be covered by cover easier.

The higher BS is offset by a weaker gun...

During an apocalypse game I had years ago some gretchens kicked our butts.

One huge unit of gretchens held out in a building way up the back board with no supporting units.

We had a deepstrike team of 30 storm troopers, 10 swooping hawks, 10 Vespid, 3 battle suits and I think that was it. It was meant to be a cool behind the enemy lines combat drop coalition. We landed down and opened fire on the mega unit killing some. They returned fire at one squad at a time. Dealing more losses to us a turn than we where to them. In the end we lost so many of those deep strikers we had to go in and route them by assaulting. Afterwards they dedicated one D weapon at them and finished off our finally victorious men.

So if you have enough of them, and the enemy is stupid, there is that one chance they can do something.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
The higher BS is offset by a weaker gun...

... But more dakka with enough bodies.
Even then though, if you use them as meatshields, the guns are really just a bonus to the plan. Grot guns aren't that much worse than Sluggas.

I personally use them to hide behind a building and holding one objective as everything else pushes up. they only got shot up once, and as of yet they only killed one scion.


and never doubt the annoyance of small objective secured units.

They are a cheap way to bubble wrap or shape the battlefield against deep strikers. GK deep striking in turn will hate you for denying them proper space to DS. Also you can deny them any high value targets. This can be just what you need to survive turn 1 if you go second.

gretchin = cheap cover saves, cheap objective secured, and tiny tiny models that can actually very easily break line of sight. most ruins block them completely and if not go to ground in ruins is 2+ cover

 G00fySmiley wrote:
gretchin = cheap cover saves, cheap objective secured, and tiny tiny models that can actually very easily break line of sight. most ruins block them completely and if not go to ground in ruins is 2+ cover

3+ but still great.

So their height and their horribleness gets them ignored and they quietly camp? Sounds like orky kunnin

I remember quite some games with grots playing a vital role just cause they're ignored for being bad. The mindset of many opponents is like: "So, they're t2 s2 guyz without armor but with s3 ap- 12' gunz and ld 5(7) that cost 3 pt each? Pfff why waste fire on them?!". And than somewhere around turn 3-4 he can't charge his deathstar at your boyz cause grots are blocking the way and this 1 turn delay allows you to steamroll his backfield and win an objective game.

Grots have their place on a frontline too. Just don't expect them to kill something. Run them and block the path.

And when you're playing vs an alpha-strike force, they're also invaluable as cover for your boyz and area denial.

So, even though grots are terrible on paper, they have their uses on tabletop. Not that they're an auto-include in every list, cause as for me, they're still too expensive. IF they were 2 ppm, they'd see the table more often cause it's a more fair price for grots. Heck, ig get conscripts with cheap easy access to fearless for 3 ppm. But don't get locked in this: "OMG someone has wave serpents! All other tanks are useless!!11". Yep, someone does the grot's job better. But you just have grots and the job still needs to be done.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I feel like they are such a letdown as they are worse than boyz in every way. Even their better BS is offset by a weaker gun. Is there any place for them in a competitive list and if so what do they do? Every time I try to use them they are butchered by everything...

Gretchen are awesome.

they give you a way to affordably offer a cover save to your REAL troops and they give you a practical guarantee that you'll get your charges off and you pay DIRT for it. You can pop the unit up after going to ground by making them Fearless and the list of things I like about them goes on and on.

For me, I definitely think I love gretchen.