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Greetings and salutations,<?

    After over a year of living down under I thought I would drop back in and give a quick tournament report of Conquest in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Melbourne</st1:place></st1:City> this last weekend...  For those who don't know I won Arcanicon in January this year (a 120 person 40K tourney here in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Victoria</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region></st1:place&gt using my mordian guard featured in US dwarf a few years back...  Looking for something different I went against Mauleed's personal advice (sorry Ed) and painted up my Wyche Cult over the school holidays and trialed them at Conquest this last weekend (1500pts).  This was all in preparation of taking an expanded army to Liber Animus next weekend (2000pts)...  Anywhooo...  There always seems to be a debate about how feasible a list the old DE are, lets see how did they did...

I took the standard lord with shadow field, agoniser, combat drugs, and plasma grenades in a squad of 8 wyches in a raider...

5 wyche with wyche weapons in squads of 8 in a raider

5 warp beasts and beatmaster

a ravager with three disintigrators... 

All wyche squads have a succubus with an agonizer...  The raiders have a mix of dissies and dark lances...

 

Game 1:  Played generic marines...  evenly balanced between shooting and Hth...  Scenery was on my side, I was able to skirt the terrain to good effect and assault almost at my leasure.  The speed of the Cult is unbelieveable! I won the first game 19 points to 1...  Wyches excelled in HTH...  Warp Beasts did not impress me in the least but disintigrators are vicious especially when you team them up.  My ravager and a raider wiped out an 8 man squad in one volley of shots?  OUCH!

Game 2:  Played Vanilla Eldar...  My opponents army had heaps of star cannons and bright lances... If I had been playing marines I would have been in real trouble but thankfully I wasn't!  The army was decidedly tooled to take down powered armour.  Lots of guardian squads with star cannons, two wraithlords with bright lances, two war walkers with starcannons, and a few vipers with starcannons as well.  The mission was a victory point mission but armies were deployed shortwise across the tables.  The mission also had nightfight in turn one.  This mission was built for my army.  Because I had two squads roll 12 inch charges I was confident going in.  I won the roll to go first and the race was on.  I pulled a thirty inch charge and assaulted on turn 1 with one squad (the other squad was 2 inches out).  I wiped out that squad and consolidated into another?  The game ran in my favour most of the time and by turn three almost all of my wyches were safely locked in combat.  I did loose a squad that couldn?t consolidate into safety and was rapid fired off the board rather spectactularly.  Moral Wyches die to guns shockingly easily.  My opponent was spectacular and almost turned the tables on me many times but my wyches were smply amazing in HTH combat.  I wiped out both wraithlords and warwalkers in HTH thanks to my succubuses their agonizers.  The army was simply amazing to play.

Game 3:  Blood Angels?  My opponent in this match was a tournament fixture whom I had played before (same tourney year before).  He pansted me last year and unfortuneately this year was to be no different.  The was playing a super min/maxed scout army with 5,5 man scout squads and two chaplains (16 deathcompany).  8 Assault cannon speeders and a baal predator.  I should still have been able to pull this one out but the mission had escalation and my army came on piecemeal.  His did not?  He destroyed my raiders and units as they came on and he had scoring units at the end?  I did not.  He won fair and square?  Lesson here?  The wyche cult needs to flood opponents with targets and is very fragile to shooting? Loss?

Game 4: Iron Warriors?  One of those games that you wish you never had at a tourney.  Opponent took 52 minutes to deploy and was painfully slow? We had 20 minutes left at the end of turn 1!  I was really unhappy.  The TO gave us our lunch hour to continue.  Ran out of time to finish my opponent off.  One more turn and His army would have been toast.  He ended up claiming one more quarter than me in the end (lucky battle cannon shot).  I could have tied but forgot to move my ravager 24 inches to contest and tie?  Noob mistake?  The loss like that after a game like that was really frustrating.

Game 5: Space Wolves:  Sooo angry frustrated and hungry (no lunch if  you remember) I walked into game 5.  Took one look at my opponent?s army and realized that it was the player from round three?s army from last year?  Again?  It was all bloodclaw packs, speeders with assault cannons (two), a drop pod and independent characters?  With glee I realized that only his speeders could hurt me over 12 inchs sooo I set my raiders up in one long line?  Got turn one and charged headlong into combat. By the end of turn three only one speeder with a hvy bolter and a drop pod still off the board were left.  The mission was to get scoring units into the opponents deployment zone?  I had heaps in his?  He dropped the pod into his zone and was looking to try and tie the game? didn?t work? wiped him out by turn 5?

  Gotta run.  More later?.  (game 6, final results, and overall impressions)

So far 3 wins and 2 losses...

And I?m back?
Round 6: Vanilla Eldar. Round 6 I ended up playing the son of well known tourney plaer who I know very well. James (the son) won the Conflict newbie tourney a month ago and is fast becoming a menace to players everywhere (in a good way). He had a warp spider heavy army with lots of reapers, two wraithlords, and an Avatar. The mission had escalation and lucky for me almost the my entire army came in on turn two? I stomped his army piecemeal as it came on but he made a remarkable turn around towards the end of the game when his Avatar ate two of my wyche squads in a row and one of his warp spider units blasted one into oblivion in a spectacular display of shooting? Ouch? Anywho I wiped him out except for the Avatar (which had two wounds left and a pile of dark lances pointed at it). The mission was for VP?s and I had a healthy lead. Big win for me?
Final results? That blood angel player ended up with 1st place, I pulled third and best sportsman. Overall I had a blast playing the cult. It was a completely original experience from playing my guard, black legion, blood angel, templars, and necron armies. While I tend to lean towards close combat heavy armies I have never been so dependant on staying in HTH to stay alive. The 4 up save inv save in HTH is crucial to the Wyche Cult staying alive. I have found that the cult usually wins combat the first turn but the enemy usually doesn?t run or is wiped out until the second turn of HTH which leaves me free to run and charge someone new.
Never leave the wyches in raiders unless you are VERY confident the raider will not get popped otherwise they are safer on foot.
I still cannot believe how fast the army itself is. It has to be, If you can?t charge on turn 1 or 2 you are toast for your enemy?s shooting. Given the choice I will always assault. I fired a blaster once in the tourney (last game) and pistols also once. Fleet saved my *donkey*constantly as did wyche drugs? Even though some results on the drugs table do not look that flash I learned that all have a purpose and with a little forthought and a little luck you can get the bonuses to work for maximum effect (I am speaking beyond everyone?s favourite 12 inch assault here). Anyway?
Hope this has been an educational read. Changed your opinions at all Ed?
BTW I will be taking the same army at 2000pts to an invitational tourney this weekend. I took Lilith as my Lord, added another wyche squad, a 5 reaver squad, and 3 hellions with a blaster (to deepstrike, claim table quarters and tank hunt). Wish me luck?

B

Great tourney report. I have a DE army and I am just now mastering it. I went conventional not wych cult, but I might have to paint up some more wyches and try your way.

In game 5, you played a Space Wolf player who drop podded one unit. I believe that Codex:Space Wolf has a specil rule that if you use drop pods, your ENTIRE army must drop pod or they cannot enter the board.

Darrian

No one doubts that a wyche list is feasible when you go first.  In fact, those slaughters you had are pretty much what I'd expect.  I'd also expect that if you went second you would get slaughtered, especially against that Eldar player (starcannons are anti-MEQ, yes, but also anti-raider). 

I believe the reason that people don't think wyches can be competitive in a tournament environment is the lack of terrain to hide them before the game combined with only going first 50% of the time.  Seems like you had fun with them though, congrats.

- Oaka

@Oaka

There are 2 items you can take to give your army a boost on survivability
- nightmare doll that lets you re-roll going 1st
- shadow fields that make your raider 6" farther away for shooting

the shadow fields wont really stop much 1st turn shooting from 36" & 48" guns, but it stops 24" guns cold (assault cannons anyone?) I haven't played my DE much in 4th ed, but those 2 items were staples for me in third ed.

Actually Nightmare Doll only lets you reroll for board edge. If it was for first turn, I'd bring one to every game.

Thanks for the battle report, skabradisdead. Let us know how next weekend goes!

Nightmare doll only lets you re-roll for board edge? I didnt know...

Would you say that it's better to take an Archon and have him attach to the squad in the raider? If the squad doesn't get the 12" charge you could have the archon disembark, detach, fleet, and then assault 12" - getting an additional enemy squad pinned on turn 1 if yer lucky. The bad side, of course, is from escalation...

Yup it is for the board edge... No so helpful unless you are looking for good terrain to hide behind... I tend to avoid the nightmare doll and shadowfields because I have the points. Given my druthers I would add more wyches... I really like units of 8. They are kill opponents but usually not the first turn meanng my wyches are safe until my next turn.

The piece of wargear I needed more than anything else was a trophy rack. My lord ran twice (and her unit was below half) when she failed her roll by one. Never again (if I can help it).

Anyway thanks guys... Can't wait until Sunday morning...

B

Posted By Darrian13 on 04/19/2006 6:31 AM
Great tourney report. I have a DE army and I am just now mastering it. I went conventional not wych cult, but I might have to paint up some more wyches and try your way.

In game 5, you played a Space Wolf player who drop podded one unit. I believe that Codex:Space Wolf has a specil rule that if you use drop pods, your ENTIRE army must drop pod or they cannot enter the board.

Darrian

Space Wolves now follow the drop pod rules out of the Space marine Codex.

It is in the Space Wolf FAQ.

I still think wyches (and all DE) are too rock paper scissors to really work. Sure, you'll beat opponents that can't shoot you fast enough, or don't know what they're doing in general, but against the ubiquitous shooty or drop poddy marine army run by someone that knows what they're doing, you don't have much of a chance.

Hmmmm

Thats what kept me from them in the past but I played 6 very canny players at Conquest... Keeping them alive is a hell of a challenge and their speed is 2nd to none...

I guess the real test will be this weekend when I play the best of the best at Liber. 54 of Australia and New Zealand's top players invited to play in a 2000 pt 6 round tourney. These guys know there *donkey*from their elbow... Last year was brutal this year is looking to be harder.

I'll keep ya posted...

Even when you win with them, they still stink.

You're just that good.

Fifty-two minutes to deploy an Iron Warriors army?!  That's stalling, and shouldn't be tolerated.  If I were a judge, I would have given you a 20-0 for shenanigans like that.  Unacceptable!

-=Edit=- "You" in this case being the person stalling.

After 15 minutes you should have alerted the judge. Then when he still stalls, you alert the judge again.

If that doesnt get the judge to give him a loss, then the judge needs to be given a chocolate swirly.

Maybe I am too used to playing in M:tG tournies though.

Seems like a new strat of the IW. In the last tournament a IW Player took nearly an hour for deployment against an Alaitoc army and moved real slow. Too bad, that the regular time was 2.5 hours with a 1.5h break afterwards so time was not an issue But I admit, that they used a lot of time to discuss rules (esp. the use of a teleport homer ^^) and the Alaitoc player did consume a fair ammount of time, too.

@topic
Nice BatRep, thx for sharing. Hope you will share the 2000p BatReps, too.

The german GT Heat 1 was won by a DE Army, I think it was a wych cult with two portals and one of the best players around here has a nice DE Army (regular). So I think: Yes, the DE are a feasible list but it takes a lot of luck to get the right opponents

Posted By mauleed on 04/20/2006 8:47 AM

Even when you win with them, they still stink.

You're just that good.

Thanks Ed I'll take that as a compliment!

FYI just finished getting the army done enough to play with (at least one layer of hightlight on everything... in most cases more).  Just in time to go out for mexican and get a good nights rest (yeah right!)...

Don't use portals but I have painted one up as an objective so I'll be playtesting one soon.  Dunno, I kinda like having everything on at once...

Thanks for the interesting report!

It'd be fun to do a wild, unique army like this. At the moment I'm leaning towards LATD, since you don't see too many of them and they are sooo versatile. But I'd really love to have a fast army...and currently DE is as fast as you get

I have to ask: Is there a specific ruleset for the wych cult lists? I've looked all over for them and I cannot seem to find them.

Can someone give me some more information on it?

Ezz

No specific ruleset perse anymore. The whole list is in the updated DE codex. You just use wych models for the army and keep the talos and haemonculi at home.

Gotcha. That was exactly what I needed to know.

Thanks!

Ezz

Thanks for the report. Sounds like mostly fun times!

Nice report. I actually prefer going shooty with my DE with two Wych squads for counter assault or the suprise element of raider rush if my opponent sets up to close. I think you would have to get favorable match ups though to pull off an overall win with straight cult lists.

A swarm of infiltrating Kroot mercenaries seem like they could fix all your problems except escalation (and maybe help in that).

Hey guys I am back... Sorry to take so long...

Anyway.... Since we last spoke... Took the wyches to that 2000 pt invite only tourney and did pretty well. Three wins, one very close draw, one good loss (I lost the bet and had to grow my hair for 6 weeks) and one I didn't have much fun with... In the end I got third best sport and ended up 12th or 13th... Whatever it was fun and the wyches definately held their own... They suck at holding objectives and that is how I didn't win those other games... But in aggressive missions they were unstoppable...

Two weeks later at the Melbourne GT... Won 4 lost one and tied 1... The loss was against the Ironwarrior player from hell and the judges ruled that there was no level three terrain on my side of the board (I lost the roll to pick)... He got first turn and was VERY lucky with his shooting... At the end... I had maybe 4 units of like 3 or 4 wyches left when it came time for my first turn (and not vehicles at all)... It sucked... I lost (shocker) but I didn't make it easy for him and killed almost 600 points of his stuff before I finally went down..

I learned that bikes, beasts, and hellions just pale next to wyches in HTH... My optimal list is wyches in raiders and a pile of dissie ravagers.... It is GOLD... Nothing short of a genestealer pure army can kill it in HTH.... and the wyche cult and shoot that army off the table... BUT man do they die in the shooting phase...

I think my next list will be trying out the zilla choir but eventhough I had figured it out I didn't know that is what it was called until just now.... Great minds think alike I guess... Cheers...

B