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Ok, so we all know Zagstruck got nerfed hard now that his Stormboyz can't assault out of Deepstrike. That sucks, but we must look forward to the future. He also lost his powerklaw attacks on the turn he charges. With 6th ed, the Vulcha's Klaws were nerfed to I3 rather than I4, which really when it comes down to the crunch, I3 isn't a whole lot better than I1 considering the models he'd be looking to murder (high t, low save, aka Initiative 4 space marines). In the 7th ed book, he lost that too. He gained a paltry bonus to his hammer of wrath. Bummer.

Reading it again though, it may not be as bad as we think. Hammer of wrath hits automatically, and is resolved at I10 (aka before basically anything else short of some sort of slaanesh monster, if that). Challenges occur at the start of the Combat sub-phase, before the I10 step. For the longest time I was under the impression that Hammer of Wrath is resolved during the charge sub-phase, rendering Zagstrucks autoklaw basically useless because even with devious B2B placement precision the hits would be able to be Look Out Sir'd! But because it occurs AFTER challenges, Zagstruck can bait even the mightiest chapter master and Instant Death him before he can even strike any blows, and unless your opponent is familiar with the ork codex or asks you (in which case you'd be morally obligated to blab), he won't even see it coming, and will likely accept the challenge, and weep sweet humie tears. It's a trick that'd likely only work the first time you whip it out of the bag, but I think its interesting nonetheless.

Thoughts?

For the most part you issue a challenge with him every time and force an opponent to not participate in the combat.

Zaggy formation feels quite potent. Not at the same level as greentide or kommando formation but still good.



You can form a squad that has 3 nobz and is more reliable than codex ones. Ohm and Zaggy not eating up HQ slot. And that's actually the case when 2d6 run with 1/7 death rate is worth it vs blasts and templates.

I say, if you want vulcha boyz, that's what you need.

I was under the impression that Da Boss is Watchin' is a ridiculously bad nerf, considering it makes the "in combat auto pass morale" on a 1 impossible, and makes the second most reliable result "Cracking Heads" only possible on a 1. 2-6 being 10 models or more is horrible, because really, when its crunch time and you're actually rolling morale from losing combat, odds are there aren't more than ten of you.

Also, deep striking would mean taking a round of shooting, which in my books is a big no-no (but my local meta is weird because its mostly xenos, aka tau and eldar, so their shooting is disproportionately good). I'd rather just jump about for a guaranteed turn 2 charge, even against marines and guard, I think. Deep striking is just certain doom for a unit with no armour save.

You have to fail Zag's ld first to get the drawbacks of 'boss is watching'.

In all fairness, i can't see any need for Zaggy otherwise. If you don't want a large mob, you can alwayz go with small squads with pk nobz flying behind wagonz. They're somewhat a sidegrade to truckboyz without obsec in this case.

 Bolg da Goff wrote:
I was under the impression that Da Boss is Watchin' is a ridiculously bad nerf, considering it makes the "in combat auto pass morale" on a 1 impossible, and makes the second most reliable result "Cracking Heads" only possible on a 1. 2-6 being 10 models or more is horrible, because really, when its crunch time and you're actually rolling morale from losing combat, odds are there aren't more than ten of you.

Also, deep striking would mean taking a round of shooting, which in my books is a big no-no (but my local meta is weird because its mostly xenos, aka tau and eldar, so their shooting is disproportionately good). I'd rather just jump about for a guaranteed turn 2 charge, even against marines and guard, I think. Deep striking is just certain doom for a unit with no armour save.

I know what you mean with the 2+ to mob rolls, but the fact that at around 250 pts you've got a 15 stormboy squad, zagstrukk and a couple PKs, (one nob with a big choppa for the challenges zag cant handle), the entire unit has shred on its HoW is a rather killy unit. You don't have to DS them, you could still run them up field using their movement and 2d6 run. Or DS them into nearby ruins, ready for next turn assault. I am currently building up some stormboys to bring exactly this.

You actually have to ds them.

 koooaei wrote:
You actually have to ds them.

ahhh missed that when reading about the squad forming 1 group. But yeh they do need to be DS'ed. Hmm, still pretty nasty as a hard choice/forcing decisions unit.