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I took my Barbed Hierodule against a Necron player running 2 catacomb command barges with MSS.

If my Barbed Hierodule fails the MSS test, then does it still get to stomp, or does it have to give that up as well?

tag8833 wrote:
I took my Barbed Hierodule against a Necron player running 2 catacomb command barges with MSS.

If my Barbed Hierodule fails the MSS test, then does it still get to stomp, or does it have to give that up as well?

I believe Stomp is just an I1 attack. If this is the case, MSS basically prevents a model that was affected by MSS from performing any attacks for the remainder of the turn.

MSS prevents attacking normally. Stomp is a special attack made in addition to normal attacks.

As such, MSS does not prevent Stomp.

Per MSS the model is under your control though so the stomp would be up to you as the holder of MSS to do would it not?

Gravmyr wrote:
Per MSS the model is under your control though so the stomp would be up to you as the holder of MSS to do would it not?

Correct. The model is under the control of MSS until after all blows are struck. Stomp is optional so it does not get triggered automatically somehow.

The model only does a d3 instead of attacking normally but still gets to use any weapon that the controller of the MSS wants. But stomp like others have said is not a CC weapon. MSS also does not say that the model changes control.

col_impact wrote:

Gravmyr wrote:
Per MSS the model is under your control though so the stomp would be up to you as the holder of MSS to do would it not?

Correct. The model is under the control of MSS until after all blows are struck. Stomp is optional so it does not get triggered automatically somehow.

It does a number of hits to its unit dictated by MSS not dictated by it own Attacks, or WS. The only thing under the control of the MSS player is which Melee weapon to use.

The necron FAQ says:
"At the start of the Fight sub-phase, after charges have been made, but before any blows are struck, randomly select a non-vehicle enemy model in base contact with the bearer of the mindshackle scarabs. That model must immediately take a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is passed, the mindshackle scarabs have no effect. If the test is failed, the victim strikes out at his allies. Instead of attacking normally, he inflicts D3 hits on his own unit (or himself, if on his own or in a challenge) when it is his turn to attack. These hits are resolved at the victim's Strength and benefit from any abilities and penalties from his Melee weapons (the controller of the mindshackle scarabs chooses which weapon he uses, if there is a choice). If he is still alive, the victim returns to the owning player's control once all the blows in that round of combat have been struck."

The Barbed Heirodule has only 1 Melee weapon, a pair of Scything Talons. S: User, AP:6. I don't think anyone would argue that Stomps are a Melee weapon. The only question is if Stomps count as "Attacking Normally". I would lean toward no, because the rules for Stomp starts with:
"Super-heavy Walkers engaged in combat may make a special type of attack called a Stomp attack. The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker's normal attacks."

RAW, it seems clear to me that Stomps are not prevented by MSS, but I felt a little dirty making that argument, because it was so clearly in my favor, and something that neither of us had considered before the moment arrived (which it really didn't, because I made my MSS test).

But if stomp attack is made in addition to the normal attacks and the normal attacks have been replaced with the MSS attacks then can the stomps still take place?

"If he is still alive, the victim returns to the owning player's control once all the blows in that round of combat have been struck."

Stomp happens during combat. So as the owning player once you can start making decisions again, the moment to stomp has passed. This seems slam dunk to me. Am I missing something?

col_impact wrote:
"If he is still alive, the victim returns to the owning player's control once all the blows in that round of combat have been struck."

Stomp happens during combat. So as the owning player once you can start making decisions again, the moment to stomp has passed. This seems slam dunk to me. Am I missing something?

I would also say that failing MSS reduces you to the D3 on yourself for that Combat phase.

@tag8833 What is the last line of the quote from the faq that you posted? If the model is not under the control of the mss or at least out of your control as the owner of the model how do you regain control?

Gravmyr wrote:
@tag8833 What is the last line of the quote from the faq that you posted? If the model is not under the control of the mss or at least out of your control as the owner of the model how do you regain control?

Fair enough. I will shed no tears once the new Necron codex comes out and fixes this overly complex rule. It feels like 20% of all the rule arguments in my gaming group are around MSS.

Can't disagree with you there but we'll see what they do.... A majority cut and paste is all I expect....