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Hi Dakka,

Just expanding on my 500 Point List, thoughts would be appreciated, have updated with ideas too

HQ
Sucubbus w/ Archite Glaive
=95

Troops
Kabalite Warriors x5
-Venom w/ Splinter Cannons x2
=105

Kabalite Warriors x5
-Venom w/ Splinter Cannons x2
=105

Elites
Incubi x3
-Klaivex
-Raider
=125

Fast Attack
Scourges x5
-Dark Lance x4
=160

Sourges x5
-Splinter Cannon x4
=140

Razorwing Jetfighter w/ Dark Lance, Splinter Cannon
=150

Heavy Support
Talos
=120

=1000

Was thinking of changing the Talos to a Dissy Ravager and having Dark Lance on Raider and Haywire Grenades on Succubus.

It is only 10 more points for a Succubus with Archite Glaive than your Archon and for that you get Ap2 a 4++ in combat and combat drugs. She is a much better choice at this point level. Drop the Splinter Cannon from the Razorwing to pay for it.

At this point level the Haywire blasters start to come into their own more on the Scourges as you have more units with kore variety of roles. So I would swap one squad over to Haywire. Also making that swap means you only need 4 boxes to build your Scourges rather than 8 .

Otherwise it is looking fairly solid.

Thanks for the help

Are Blasters necessary on Warriors? Because for the points I could retain the Splinter Cannon/Dark Lance on the Razerwing whilst also having the Succubus and an additional Incubi

I am just wondering if the bomber is worth it, it only has 1 void mine and the missiles are 40 points minimum. It looks amazing but is 160+ points for 1 bomb 2 lances and some missiles worth it?

 BunkerBob wrote:
I am just wondering if the bomber is worth it, it only has 1 void mine and the missiles are 40 points minimum. It looks amazing but is 160+ points for 1 bomb 2 lances and some missiles worth it?

I don't run missiles, I think the Razorwing does that better with Necrontoxin, which you can get four for no charge - it's mainly in for Anti-Air and to help the Scourges, that's bombs just a bonus for if I'm up against T4 W2 and stuff

Ok, I think I'm going to drop the Blasters on the Warrior w/ Venoms to make the points for another Incubi and have Dark Lances on the Razorwing to help the Voidraven with Anti-Air duties.

I'm also considering changing the Venom with Incubi to a Raider, the additional Hull Point should be useful. If I went with a Raider, what would be better, Dark Lance with Haywire on Succubus /Enhanced Aethersails or try and find points for a Nightshield?

Updated original list, advice would be appreciated

Dark Lances on Scourges are expensive and poor. You can't move and shoot with them so you have to deploy in the open which gets them killed not matter the cover save. You get better poison fire from Venoms too for 10 points less you get 4 Splinter Cannons that always fire at full efficiency and are tougher to kill. Stick to Haywire and Heat Lances on Scourges.

I wouldn't pay for both the Splinter Cannon and the Dark Lances on the Razorwing. Puck if it's main role is AA/AT or AI and pick accordingly then take Night Shields if you have and points left.

Talos is cool and powerful but very slow and does not fit in with the shooty nature of the rest of your list. Drop him but I wouldn't take a Ravager they are overcosted. You are light on AT you only have 2 units capable of it and one is hamstrung due to heavy weapons and not being survivable the other being on a unit that has to start in reserves. It is quite possible that against a tank heavy list that kills your Scourges turn 1 you can literally do nothing to your opponents army unit turn 4 if you get some bad reserve rolls by which time you'll have already lost the game.

Oh I thought Jump Infantry had Relentless, I'll change that.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Oh I thought Jump Infantry had Relentless, I'll change that.

A thought i also agreed with.

is this not the case then?

having said that i agree with fling that heat lances are better than dark lances due to melta or haywire for utility

Well what about:

Succubus w/ Archite Glaive
Warriors x5 w/ Venom, Splinter Cannon x2
Warriors x5 w/ Venom, Splinter Cannon x2
Incubi x3 w/ Klaive, Raider
Scourges x5 w/ 4 Heat Lance
Scourges x5 w/ 4 Heat Lance
Reavers x3 w/ Cluster Caltrops
Reavers x3 w/ Cluster Caltrops
Reavers x3 w/ Cluster Caltrops
Razorwing w/ Dark Lance

Using the Realspace Raiders Detachment? It comes to 999, although I could change Scourges to Haywire, have Heat Lances on the Reavers and give Nightshield to Razorwing

That last list looks really solid. Jetpack Infantry have relentless not Jump Infantry.

 FlingitNow wrote:
That last list looks really solid. Jetpack Infantry have relentless not Jump Infantry.

Coolio.

I take it Heat Lances are not heavy then? else i may consider switching to haywire in my list.

OP- nice list IMHO

(This is opinion)

I disagree on the Ravager, I think they're properly costed now. They were stupid cheap for three Dark Lances, and throwing Nightshields and Flickerfield on them made them even better. They've also performed extremely well for me (I usually run with two), as they regularly get explode results for me, even vs AV12. Granted, they've lost Aerial Assault, but I do think they're points cost is more in-line with what they are and what they bring. Though, it would probably be best now to take them as a heavy AI platform with the default dissies and a Nightshield, and place it in ruins (or get to ruins asap).

Awesome sauce, guess I know what models I'm getting first

Really want to see that Ravager work with three Disintegrators, or Deep Strike 3 Dark Lances while being able to move 12..

rabidelfman wrote:
(This is opinion)

I disagree on the Ravager, I think they're properly costed now. They were stupid cheap for three Dark Lances, and throwing Nightshields and Flickerfield on them made them even better. They've also performed extremely well for me (I usually run with two), as they regularly get explode results for me, even vs AV12. Granted, they've lost Aerial Assault, but I do think they're points cost is more in-line with what they are and what they bring. Though, it would probably be best now to take them as a heavy AI platform with the default dissies and a Nightshield, and place it in ruins (or get to ruins asap).

Ravagers where good before, not great but good. The issue is now that there are better ways to spend the points. DE don't need help with AI they have that in spades between dirt cheap Incubi, Grotesques, Venoms all those missiles that come on your flyers. They need help killing tanks. 140 points gets the AT Ravager compared to 180 for blasterborn. So you now get more DL shots per point from the blasterborn as well as getting all those poison shots. Likewise Scourges get 4 Haywire shots for 20 points less than the Ravager. Yes the Ravager is the most survivable thing in the codex (outside of Coven stuff obviously) but it is still paper thin. Also sitting still with a 36" range is not a great idea as you'll struggle for targets particularly when playing down the length of the board. Ravagers are not atrocious they are just not worth their points cost compared to other options.

You will not see Ravagers at Tournaments anymore. People will spend their points on more efficient options like Scourges, basterborn and flyers which all bring far more for their points than the Ravager.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rabidelfman wrote:
(This is opinion)

I disagree on the Ravager, I think they're properly costed now. They were stupid cheap for three Dark Lances, and throwing Nightshields and Flickerfield on them made them even better. They've also performed extremely well for me (I usually run with two), as they regularly get explode results for me, even vs AV12. Granted, they've lost Aerial Assault, but I do think they're points cost is more in-line with what they are and what they bring. Though, it would probably be best now to take them as a heavy AI platform with the default dissies and a Nightshield, and place it in ruins (or get to ruins asap).

Ravagers where good before, not great but good. The issue is now that there are better ways to spend the points. DE don't need help with AI they have that in spades between dirt cheap Incubi, Grotesques, Venoms all those missiles that come on your flyers. They need help killing tanks. 140 points gets the AT Ravager compared to 180 for blasterborn. So you now get more DL shots per point from the blasterborn as well as getting all those poison shots. Likewise Scourges get 4 Haywire shots for 20 points less than the Ravager. Yes the Ravager is the most survivable thing in the codex (outside of Coven stuff obviously) but it is still paper thin. Also sitting still with a 36" range is not a great idea as you'll struggle for targets particularly when playing down the length of the board. Ravagers are not atrocious they are just not worth their points cost compared to other options.

You will not see Ravagers at Tournaments anymore. People will spend their points on more efficient options like Scourges, basterborn and flyers which all bring far more for their points than the Ravager.

What would make a Ravaged competitive? Less points, Aerial Assault, Flickerfields...?

Less points is enough, aerial assault back would help. But being the 20 fewer points they used to be would he enough. 20 points is alot on a 100 point vehicle.

 FlingitNow wrote:

rabidelfman wrote:
(This is opinion)

I disagree on the Ravager, I think they're properly costed now. They were stupid cheap for three Dark Lances, and throwing Nightshields and Flickerfield on them made them even better. They've also performed extremely well for me (I usually run with two), as they regularly get explode results for me, even vs AV12. Granted, they've lost Aerial Assault, but I do think they're points cost is more in-line with what they are and what they bring. Though, it would probably be best now to take them as a heavy AI platform with the default dissies and a Nightshield, and place it in ruins (or get to ruins asap).

Ravagers where good before, not great but good. The issue is now that there are better ways to spend the points. DE don't need help with AI they have that in spades between dirt cheap Incubi, Grotesques, Venoms all those missiles that come on your flyers. They need help killing tanks. 140 points gets the AT Ravager compared to 180 for blasterborn. So you now get more DL shots per point from the blasterborn as well as getting all those poison shots. Likewise Scourges get 4 Haywire shots for 20 points less than the Ravager. Yes the Ravager is the most survivable thing in the codex (outside of Coven stuff obviously) but it is still paper thin. Also sitting still with a 36" range is not a great idea as you'll struggle for targets particularly when playing down the length of the board. Ravagers are not atrocious they are just not worth their points cost compared to other options.

You will not see Ravagers at Tournaments anymore. People will spend their points on more efficient options like Scourges, basterborn and flyers which all bring far more for their points than the Ravager.

You know, I see what you mean. Last night, I was making a 1500 point list for a game I'm playing today after work. After filling out my compulsory AI lots (10x warriors, SC, Raider, Splinter Racks, Nightshields, TGL - fighting Eldar, 4 incubi w/ klaivex for my Succubus and reavers), I went on for my AT. I usually go straight for 2x Ravagers and 2x Blasterborn in Venoms, but this time I found myself going straight for 2x Blasterborn in Venoms and 2x Haywire Scourges and found I had no points left for a Ravager... I suppose even though I really like the Ravager, I subconsciously know it's not a good choice anymore. Dammit.