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It is because they originally had 1,000 legionaries?

When they were around before Magnus, they suffered from the 'Flesh Change' which was basically rapid mutation. I think this killed off a lot of the legionnaires, and when Magnus was found, they had around 1000 Marines. I think.

When originally created, there was a series of Warp Storms that was happening in the Sol system at the time of creation of the 15th Legion so they were a bit cautious in making it but it was said it didn't effect the gene-seed at all. The first Thousand Sons were taken from a country that was recently conquered by the Emperor, one of them being Ahriman himself, and then used to conquer the rest of Terra in the name of the Emperor. After this was done, the Emperor named them the Thousand Sons because originally they had made only a thousand of them but before the Emperor sent them out of the Great Crusade, they brought them up to full Legion strength. Although the Warp Storms did not directly affect the gene-seed, it was an omen for things to come.

Flash forward to the point where the Legion finally meets Magnus. the flesh change runs rampant through the Legion and at the end of the meeting when the Emperor leaves Prospero. Magnus steps in to stop the flesh change with a mysterious procedure, you can guess his methods, and cured the least effected Marnes...with only a thousand that survived the procedure so for the second time, the Thousand Sons were reduced to only a thousand in number.

These omens and coincidences were the markings of the Chaos Gods, in particular Tzeentch. They had marked Magnus and his Legion to be the ones that fell to start the Heresy, not Horus but they underestimated the resistance of Magnus to their corruption.

 Envihon wrote:
When originally created, there was a series of Warp Storms that was happening in the Sol system at the time of creation of the 15th Legion so they were a bit cautious in making it but it was said it didn't effect the gene-seed at all. The first Thousand Sons were taken from a country that was recently conquered by the Emperor, one of them being Ahriman himself, and then used to conquer the rest of Terra in the name of the Emperor. After this was done, the Emperor named them the Thousand Sons because originally they had made only a thousand of them but before the Emperor sent them out of the Great Crusade, they brought them up to full Legion strength. Although the Warp Storms did not directly affect the gene-seed, it was an omen for things to come.

Flash forward to the point where the Legion finally meets Magnus. the flesh change runs rampant through the Legion and at the end of the meeting when the Emperor leaves Prospero. Magnus steps in to stop the flesh change with a mysterious procedure, you can guess his methods, and cured the least effected Marnes...with only a thousand that survived the procedure so for the second time, the Thousand Sons were reduced to only a thousand in number.

These omens and coincidences were the markings of the Chaos Gods, in particular Tzeentch. They had marked Magnus and his Legion to be the ones that fell to start the Heresy, not Horus but they underestimated the resistance of Magnus to their corruption.

thanks for the detailed explanation.

And after the fall of Prospero they only had about 1000 marines left then.



Which means there are less than 1000 rubic marines unless they found a way to create more.

 welshhoppo wrote:
And after the fall of Prospero they only had about 1000 marines left then.



Which means there are less than 1000 rubic marines unless they found a way to create more.

Negative, good sir. Only part of the 1,000 marines became apart of the Rubric, only those closest to Ahriman were apart of his designs to cure of the Flesh Change and thus afflicted by the Rubric so there are still marines with Magnus on the Planet of Sorcerers that are still fine in their regular armor that they have worn since the Heresy. There was also a Battle Barge full of Thousand Sons above Prospero when the Wolves attacked that Magnus told to flee. It is later confirmed after a Corvidae Cult member is seen on the ruined planet of Prospero leading some to believe along with the prophecies that the Blood Ravens are the descendants of these Marines that escaped but it is speculative and has been argued about here on dakka so you can form your own opinion on what happened to that Battle Barge full of Thousand Sons.

So why don't we see the Thousand Sons that are with Magnus and not apart of the Rubric on the table top? Well, before the GKs, I don't think GW knew how to bring a pure psyker force where all the members were psykers to the tabletop and keep it balanced even GKs used to be a specialized force so keeping a group of Thousand Sons Rubric Marines with an aspiring Sorcerer helped to balance this out a bit and not have psykers everywhere. Now with the success of GK, maybe we might seen the red armor of the Thousand Sons grace the tabletop but probably not. Might at least get 30k Thousand Sons from Forge World.

Uh, no, that's wrong, Envihon.

The reason Magnus was so ticked off was because the Rubric affected every Thousand Son left on the Planet of Sorcerers, whether they wanted to be involved or not. Anyone with Psyker powers became a Aspiring Sorcerer, and anyone whose powers were too weak or not present became a Rubric.

It's not known whether the 1,000 rating only counts Sorcerers, or if it counts every Rubric as well.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Uh, no, that's wrong, Envihon.

The reason Magnus was so ticked off was because the Rubric affected every Thousand Son left on the Planet of Sorcerers, whether they wanted to be involved or not. Anyone with Psyker powers became a Aspiring Sorcerer, and anyone whose powers were too weak or not present became a Rubric.

It's not known whether the 1,000 rating only counts Sorcerers, or if it counts every Rubric as well.

The reduction to 1,000 after Prospero was before the Rubric so therefore if what you said is true the remaining Thousand is Rubric and Sorcerer.

Here is the thing though, there are many Sorcerers that are in service of Magnus and rebuked Ahriman as well. These Sorcerers have stayed with Magnus and continue to wear their original armor. Only Ahriman and his supporters changed their armor to the ones that we see on the tabletop. Magnus and his Sorcerers have not left the Planet of the Sorcerers since the Heresy. They were there at the Siege of Terra and have not left. Ahriman and his ilk continue to grow because he recruits aspiring Sorcerers to join him. Whether they add Rubric Marines to this has never been said. Magnus and his Sorcerers are just waiting in the warp waiting for something. But there is the other explanation. The Sorcerers loyal to Magnus might too few in number to have them ever vein the tabletop.

BZZT WRONG! Magnus and his followers left at least once to attack the Fang on Fenris in M32

Actually, originally the 1000 Sons were only 1000 marines throughout the Heresy.
Their small numbers was one reason they favoured misdirection and trickery over the brute force of most other Legions.

The HH series writers decided to change that because of reasons.

 Envihon wrote:
When originally created, there was a series of Warp Storms that was happening in the Sol system at the time of creation of the 15th Legion so they were a bit cautious in making it but it was said it didn't effect the gene-seed at all. The first Thousand Sons were taken from a country that was recently conquered by the Emperor, one of them being Ahriman himself, and then used to conquer the rest of Terra in the name of the Emperor. After this was done, the Emperor named them the Thousand Sons because originally they had made only a thousand of them but before the Emperor sent them out of the Great Crusade, they brought them up to full Legion strength. Although the Warp Storms did not directly affect the gene-seed, it was an omen for things to come.

Flash forward to the point where the Legion finally meets Magnus. the flesh change runs rampant through the Legion and at the end of the meeting when the Emperor leaves Prospero. Magnus steps in to stop the flesh change with a mysterious procedure, you can guess his methods, and cured the least effected Marnes...with only a thousand that survived the procedure so for the second time, the Thousand Sons were reduced to only a thousand in number.

These omens and coincidences were the markings of the Chaos Gods, in particular Tzeentch. They had marked Magnus and his Legion to be the ones that fell to start the Heresy, not Horus but they underestimated the resistance of Magnus to their corruption.

Waaaah? So Magnus was actually just sent to a different location on earth while the other primarchs were spread out across the stars?

He said nothing about Magnus being on Terra. Throughout the War of Unification and the early years of the Great Crusade, are legions recruited from the Sol system.

Bran Dawri wrote:
The HH series writers decided to change that because of reasons.

Those reasons being people wouldn't stop bitching about "but 10,000 marines could never conquer a world!" And I have no doubt when the FW book on prospero comes out, the Thousand Sons will be increased again because the Raven Guard are listed as the smallest legion going into the Heresy, at 80,000. The thousand sons name is how many there were when they found Magnus, they are much larger than that by Prospero.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
When originally created, there was a series of Warp Storms that was happening in the Sol system at the time of creation of the 15th Legion so they were a bit cautious in making it but it was said it didn't effect the gene-seed at all. The first Thousand Sons were taken from a country that was recently conquered by the Emperor, one of them being Ahriman himself, and then used to conquer the rest of Terra in the name of the Emperor. After this was done, the Emperor named them the Thousand Sons because originally they had made only a thousand of them but before the Emperor sent them out of the Great Crusade, they brought them up to full Legion strength. Although the Warp Storms did not directly affect the gene-seed, it was an omen for things to come.

Flash forward to the point where the Legion finally meets Magnus. the flesh change runs rampant through the Legion and at the end of the meeting when the Emperor leaves Prospero. Magnus steps in to stop the flesh change with a mysterious procedure, you can guess his methods, and cured the least effected Marnes...with only a thousand that survived the procedure so for the second time, the Thousand Sons were reduced to only a thousand in number.

These omens and coincidences were the markings of the Chaos Gods, in particular Tzeentch. They had marked Magnus and his Legion to be the ones that fell to start the Heresy, not Horus but they underestimated the resistance of Magnus to their corruption.

Waaaah? So Magnus was actually just sent to a different location on earth while the other primarchs were spread out across the stars?

No, before the Thousand Sons were sent on the Great Crusade, the Emperor used them to pacify the remaining parts of Terra. Magnus was raised on Prospero, the only difference between Magnus and the other Primarchs is that Magnus reached across the warp with his mind to meet the Emperor before they ever found each other so they greeted each other like old friends once the Emperor got to Propero.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
BZZT WRONG! Magnus and his followers left at least once to attack the Fang on Fenris in M32

Ah, yes, I forgot about the Battle of the Fang and from things that are written, Magnus did have Rubric Marines with him but also at least 100 Sorcerers so it appears I was wrong about that as well. Either way, the forces of Magnus and Ahriman are separate with Ahriman leading the warband called the Prodigal Sons while Magnus still leads the main force of Thousand Sons.

From my recollection of A Thousand Sons, Ahriman describes the XV Legion as having suffered massive attrition from runaway mutation (later revealed to be Tzeench's influence), which reduced them to little more than a thousand legionaries by the time they found Magnus. Magnus then worked his mojo (cut a deal with Tzeench) to stabilize the gene-seed, allowing the Legion to swell in numbers again.

After the Battle of Prospero, only 1292 Thousand Sons are transported from Prospero to Sortiarius (the Planet of the Sorcerers), a number that is explicitly given. There are other legionaries who were out of system before the battle (Revuel Arvida's unit from Rebirth being one of them), but no information about the Rubric's effect on Thousand Sons off Sortiarius has been given yet.