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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





So I picked up a Dragon (Elmore #5) from Dark Sword Miniatures (http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/elmore-dragons-set-5-bronze-dragon.html), and the pieces just don't seem to fit together right.

The worst part is the neck:



The neck is far too small for the main torso.

Next, the tail flared out on both sides from the body, when attached, and was also too small vertically:



Finally, I took a look at the wings. One I could work with, but the other would require me to remove significant material from where the wing is supposed to attach:



Anyone else have this issue with this model? Or the range?

Is this normal? Am I supposed to be able to fix it? I'm not very good at modeling, and this level of fixing may be beyond me. Is this to be expected from that line of minis?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





UK

No experience with this range of models but kits not fitting together correctly is very common.

It's a case of either returning the item or getting a file out and filling in the gaps with green stuff

Old warriors die hard

https://themodelwarrior.wordpress.com
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Many dragon models don't fit well :( Pretty much every one I've worked with has had gap issues where the wing meets the body.

Use a file to get the two pieces to fit. Fasten the two pieces together (glue, epoxy, or whatever, and then, roll a long tube of thin green stuff, squish it in to fill the gap, and use a modelling tool to put a pattern on the greenstuff so that the seam is not visible, or at least less glaring.

   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

This won't help much, but I think it's appropriate, 'cos the dragon bits don't really fit together in Elmore's original paintings.

Looking closer at the mismatching joins, I'd guess that it's a case of individual green stuff parts being squashed in different directions during mould vulcanisation. But man, that's still a lot of squashing.

I appreciate that you don't have a lot of experience in modelling, but to be honest I'd second Talys' suggestions. The close look also shows that the surfaces and textures are pretty simple. (In a way you're lucky that Elmore doesn't know what real scales look like) I say go ahead and remove that significant material, and try to file the interrupted contours back into (partial, at least) alignment.
To be specific, file the protruding sides of the tail right down. For the top and bottom of the neck and tail joints, I suggest trying to align the top contour as much as possible, 'cos I think the back spines would be tougher to resculpt or replace (not impossible, but tougher). Then file down those conveniently flat belly scales on the torso piece. Not all the way, perhaps. At least enough to get a good angle for smoothing over the gap with putty, without leaving any too-obvious 'step' between the pieces.
I don't think I explained that last line too well. I'll try to upload a wee sketch or something later, that might help.
I can't see the problems with the wing joint too well, aside from the obvious excess in the wing piece. I'd say remove as much of that as you think appropriate, and pin it.

Gap filling. I don't know what putty you might have to hand, or what's convenient to get, but I'll assume green stuff for this. The manufacturers recommend mixing 1.5 parts yellow to 1 part blue (or 3:2) for general sculpting, and I'd agree. The extra yellow makes the mix softer, and so easier to push, spread, and blend. It also extends the working window a bit. All good stuff if you don't have much experience!
Push putty into any gaps between the pieces. Then place putty over the gaps and smooth it over, trying to smoothly blend the contours of the pieces together, as mentioned above. Be patient and take care, especially when feathering the thin edges of the putty against the metal parts. When the putty is freshly mixed and soft, it's easy to quickly push into the general shapes you want. When it starts to cure and firm up a bit, it's actually easier to smooth and blend, because it's less susceptible to random, tiny nicks, dents and tears. By the same token it's then easier to mark in detail and keep it tidy. Particularly the simple, even lines and criss-crosses on this dragon model.

Tools? I don't know what you have, if any. Clay shapers are great for smoothing, and one would be a great investment for this and any similar projects in future. (I like a size 0 'round cup' for smoothing, meself) Though for general pushing, blending edges and mark-making, I couldn't do without a metal tool. Clay shapers have a bit too much 'give' for flattening and blending the edges of green stuff patches, for one thing. Sets of sculpting tools from hobby or diy shops might be cheap and alright, but dental-quality tools can be got on ebay fairly cheaply too. Search for lecron, zahle or vehe wax carvers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/06 11:39:27


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





That's too bad, but could be a blessing in disguise. Why not try to learn how to do all this now?

Thanks for all the details. It is disappointing to know this is common, as Dark Sword makes some nice looking models. Never had this problem before with PP, GW, or FW, but I really want to try working with other companies' products as well.

Any real good tutorials on this stuff you'd suggest?
   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

Well here's something to start off with.



This is how I'd go about fixing the neck and tail, in particular. First pic, as mentioned, cutting and filing off the bit that prevent a flush fit, as well as the sideways bulges on the tail and small amounts off the belly at neck and tail joints, to help the parts line up just a wee bit more.

Second pic, securely attached. Pinned, stuck with the superglue+putty trick, or whatever.

Third, cover the gaps with putty. Marking or roughing the areas of metal underneath the putty will help it stick. Push it (lots of little pushes rather than long shoves) and gently 'polish' and blend the edges with a metal tool. Smooth with metal tool and/or clay shaper. (longer strokes this time) Easier if the putty's allowed to sit a while. Get it as smooth as you can before marking in finer details, because it'll be a bit more difficult afterwards. Smoothing and blending will probably be the trickier part of this whole thing. Fill the finer gaps around the join too, if you want!

Fourth, mark in the scale details. This should be relatively easy because there's a lot of regular scale detail to follow on from and use as a guide. As with pushing, stick more to single presses of the blade edge of the tool, rather than dragging it through the putty.
Might be a wee bit trickier around the neck join, with those muscles coming down off the neck. I can't see too well in the pics, but is there some neck muscle detail on the torso piece? will it align well enough? If not, you might want to file it down like the sideways bulges on the tail.

The third and fourth steps can be divided into further steps, especially if you're a bit nervous about trying this out. I'd say there are up to six areas you can take on, one at a time, leaving each one to harden before moving on: left neck, right neck, neck belly scales, left tail, right tail, tail belly scales. Heat can speed up the hardening process too: a warm desk lamp, a warm oven, an airing cupboard, the big yellow sky-eye if you live somewhere hot. Nothing too excessive.

And if it doesn't look quite right, you can easily rip the putty off before or after curing, and have another go. Greenstuff isn't that expensive, for all the amount you'll probably need.

The website in my sig is a wee forum about sculpting, converting and modelling wargaming minis. Nothing specific to gap-filling Darksword dragons, but there might be some help and encouragement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 17:17:21


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Arlington, VA, USA

I have that dragon, part assembled on my table right now!

It is a gorgeous model, although I found the same parts did not fit as you mention, so resorted to trimming and green stuff/milliput. Pretty much along the lines of what Vermis has done in the above post.

I will fire off an email to their owner to let them know, perhaps they need to remake the mould or something.

Currently I am assembling the wings and figuring out where best to pin...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






It is a common issue with big metal...

The different parts deform differently due to size/shape, and you often have the kerf from where it was cut apart for casting to deal with. Even with resin, there are still fitment issues for big stuff like dragons and giants.

Ive built most the metal dragons by most the companies going back to Grenadier's Dragon of the Month club and they all needed putty work to fit right. Things have gotten much better though.
   
 
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