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Morning All,

Looking for a fast yet hard hitting MSU army. Something dark elder should be pretty boss at after taking a quick look at the codex over the weekend. Initial thoughts are to go unbound so I can fit everything I wanted in, plus I don’t see Objective secured that big of a deal for an army this fast.

Drahzar- 190

3 Incubi- Champion, Venom w/extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Champion, Venom w/extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Champion, Venom w/extra cannon- 135

3 Grotesques- 3 Liquefiers, Raider- 205
3 Reaver Jetbikes- Champion, extra D6 attacks with rending (forgot the name)- 73

Ravager- 3 Dark Lances- 125

= 998

- Lots of AP2, lots of attacks thanks to rampage on units of 3 models.
- Drahzar though pricey for 1k, seems to be a boss. A bucket load of Str5 ap2 attacks and will join the Grotesques in the raider.
- Grotesques look pretty good as well as protecting Drahzar giving him majority toughness 5. Liquefiers seem nasty when taken in multiples. Ok its only str3 but there’s a 50/50 chance of having guns that ignore power armour and a 33% chance of ignoring 2+ armour.
- Venoms pin cushion same as before.
- Ravager, though now more expensive, still seems like a premium AT option. Though I could be tempted by 5 scourges with heat lances for pretty much the same points.
- The reavers are, I feel a good annoyance unit. Fast for grabbing and objective or 2, and the extra D6 rending attacks is very nice.

Nothing has been purchased yet so any suggestions that will help the list.

Any advice for a Deldar novice would be greatly appreciated.

Only one major mistake, but that's not the problem: Drazhar has a rule to only join Incubi. But as you have those, he goes with one of the elites.

I don't know one thing: Do the liquifiers roll separately for Ap, or only once for the whole unit?

Other than that, I'm more a shooty person, 3 person incubi squads, that don't have grenades, will just be killed when they go at I1 because of cover.
3 Incubi cost the same as 5 kabalite with 1 blaster. So you keep 1 Incubi squad for Drazhar, exchange two for Kabalites, and you have Battle Forged.

Incubi are a pretty bad choice to be honest, they really are not as killy as you'd think and the 3+ save without drugs or FnP.

Rather have 5 warriors in each of them venoms putting out 17 poisen shots ontop of the 12 from the Venom.

Reavers also are fairly poor close combat choice now, but they are still useful for the hit and run... Drahzar also dies like a bitch even with 2+ and Eternal Warriors if someone throws to many dice at him, i'd prefer an Archon, Succubus or Heamo just for the HQ choice.

Incubi are a pretty bad choice to be honest, they really are not as killy as you'd think and the 3+ save without drugs or FnP. 

I have to totally disagree with this. They will have FnP in most cases at least of 6+ more likely 5+ if you're cagey with them. 70 points nets you 11-13 attacks on the charge. That is pretty killy for the points. They are a cheap throw away unit the opponent HAS to deal with on average they kill 4 marines on the charge nearly earning their points back in 1 phase more than earning them back if the marines carry any sort of special weapon. Or against Terminators you kill 2-3 more than earning your points back either way.

Don't ever put Drazhar with them as they then become a worthwhile target. You want as few points as possible tied up in them so you don't care if they die but if they don't then the opponent is in trouble. So drop Drazhar for a cheap Succubus or for Lelith.

Rather have 5 warriors in each of them venoms putting out 17 poisen shots ontop of the 12 from the Venom. 

How are 5 warriors getting 17 poison shots? They can get 144 if they stand still and the opponent helpfully advances to within 12" with murderising them. For those 14 shots you kill about 1.5 marines half that in TEQs. Warriors don't stack up well compared to Incubi.

Reavers also are fairly poor close combat choice now, but they are still useful for the hit and run... Drahzar also dies like a bitch even with 2+ and Eternal Warriors if someone throws to many dice at him, i'd prefer an Archon, Succubus or Heamo just for the HQ choice.

Reavers are a good objective grabbing and clearing unit now. Highly mobile to grab whatever objective the cards tell you. Or finishing off enemy units. They are a much better combat option now than they've ever been particularly if you roll up +1T on the drugs.

Archons are pretty poor particularly in a CC list and the Haemo offers nothing really to this list.

I would say, try Drazhar and 1x3 Incubi, to see how they roll. By turn 3 you will have FnP 5+. Until then avoid thunderhammers, powerfists, melta and plasma.

At the moment the Archon cannot get Ap2 melee weapon, so if you have lot of terminators where you play, try Lelith. She can join the grots in the raider.
If you only need Ap3, kit out an archon, and maybe field him/her with a unit of bloodbrides with a syren, syren can also buy haywire grenade and a power weapon, for even more AP3.

I'd think that an Archon with a Shadowfield and WWP would be better for the Grotesque it's a bit cheaper too, so you maybe be able to find points for some Haywire Scourges to help your Ravager with AT.

Only one major mistake, but that's not the problem: Drazhar has a rule to only join Incubi. But as you have those, he goes with one of the elites.

i don't recall seeing that in his rules, only that incubi units within 6" gain a buff? clairfication please someone.

I don't know one thing: Do the liquifiers roll separately for Ap, or only once for the whole unit?

as i read it, you roll seperately as it doesn't say that you roll once for the unit. a precedent was set in the ork dex where the weapon in question (flash gitz snazzguns) specifically states you roll once for the unit. liquiefiers have no such stipulation IIRC.

What are peoples thoughts on running 5 scourges with heat lances over a lone ravager?

 mixer86 wrote:

Only one major mistake, but that's not the problem: Drazhar has a rule to only join Incubi. But as you have those, he goes with one of the elites.

i don't recall seeing that in his rules, only that incubi units within 6" gain a buff? clairfication please someone.

It says in his codex entry in the Master of Blades rule that he can only join friendly units of Incubi, very first paragraph.
This unit gains a +1 buff to its weaponskill.

I like the Scourges 5 points less gets you 1 more shot.

Ok, looks like Drazhar is out the window if he has to run in Incubi.

What about this then?

Succubus- Archite Glaive- 95

3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon, nightshields- 145
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon, nightshields- 145
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon, nightshields- 145

3 Grotesques- 3 Liquefiers, Abberation, Raider, Dark Lance, Nightshields- 230

5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120
5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120

= 1000

Succubus for much cheaper HQ, runs with Grots. Abberation for accepting challenges the Succubus doesn't like the look of. Scourges for a bucket load of ap1 lance melta.

Thoughts?

Looks solid very Assaulty.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Looks solid very Assaulty.

Coolio. is the succubus a good choice or would a hamey be better if running with grots?

Succubus all the way, Haemmie does nothing for Grots unless you use the Coven Supplement as PfP doesn't help Coven stuff as it all starts with FnP and is poisoned so gains no real benefit from FC. She also adds Ap2 to the unit. This is the coolest 1k list you've come up with to date. DE going all assault what's not to love?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Succubus all the way, Haemmie does nothing for Grots unless you use the Coven Supplement as PfP doesn't help Coven stuff as it all starts with FnP and is poisoned so gains no real benefit from FC. She also adds Ap2 to the unit. This is the coolest 1k list you've come up with to date. DE going all assault what's not to love?

Well the distinct lack of grenades is a worry, but other than that you think it's good to go?

At least the Succubus gets grenades. She might manage a wound or two before the enemy strikes, helping to even the odds. Just try and get the unit of with the Succubus to be the one assaulting into cover when you have to (if possible of course ;D).

I really like the new list.

Yeah use your mobility to try to avoid cover where possible.

Sweet.

That sounds like a final draft decided then.

thanks guys.

Just the usual "one thing".
Venom's cannot be equipped with night shields, so you have 45 points.

I would put an Armour of Misery on the Succubus, to protect her, plus -2 Ld after winning an assault is priceless.
(doing a Fear check before the assault can come in handy too)

The other 30 points... maybe try the Torment Grenade Launcher on the grots Raider.

I didn't even notice he'd put Nightshields on the Venoms.

Yeah Armour of Misery is pretty strong (though always seems a waste to not pair it with a Telepathy Psyker ).

Perhaps upgrade a Venom or 2 to Raiders for NS and more AT shots. Plus as configured the Incubi squads are 150 points not 145. Also the Grotesques unit is 235. So you only have 25 spare points AoM is 15, swapping Venom for NS&DL Raider is 10. Giving 2 Raiders and 2 Venoms forbetter symmetry

Damn it. knew it was too good to be true.

and fling you know full well it wouldn't be symmetrical if one raider carried incubi and the other grotesques!!! shame on you!

Ok, please tell me if i have this right now:

Succubus- Archite Glaive- 95

3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135

3 Grotesques- 3 Liquefiers, Abberation, Raider, Dark Lance, Nightshields- 235

5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120
5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120

=975

if correct i would have 25 to spend?

I'd grab the Armour of Misery on the Succubus and a Scissorhabd on the Aberration for rending. Exactly 25.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd grab the Armour of Misery on the Succubus and a Scissorhabd on the Aberration for rending. Exactly 25.

can you take scissorhand AND liquefier on the abberation?

Yes

So................

Succubus- Archite Glaive, Armour of Misery- 110

3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135
3 Incubi- Klaivex, Venom, extra cannon- 135

3 Grotesques- 3 Liquefiers, Abberation, Scissorhand, Raider, Dark Lance, Nightshields- 245

5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120
5 Scourges- 4 Heat Lances- 120

= 1000

Signed, Sealed, Delivered?

I think so.

Looks like a hardhitting list.

Go break some face

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think so.

Sweet.

Looks like a hardhitting list.

Go break some face

Why thank you. i do try