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'Sup, dakka
Anyway, dawn of war Got me into 40k, and I got my friends into 40k; after a long time of reading the lore and having long, nerdy debates and discussions on said lore, we've decided we would like to actuelly play 40k.
Anyway, with so many editions and house rules running around, I've decided to ask for advice on how we should get into 40k; particularly, which edition we should use.
1: We're all good friends, and none of us are are hardcore list-builders, so gentlemen's agreements and thematic/lorebased armies shall probably be the rule.
2: We will be playing for fun, so we can and will bend lore and rules if need be.
3: For reasons ranging from finances to personal taste, We will be proxie'ing pretty much everything we can proxy, with a fairly broad and open minded take on what can represent what; Some cheaply avaible troops on ebay (like, for example, SM tactical sqauds) will probably see some good use, but even they will almost certainly be supplemented/replaced by dreamforge Eisenkern....obviously, we arent't going to be playing allot of GW Tournements.

Honestly, if you arent going to play the most recent edition using actual GW minis I just wouldnt bother playing the game. The best things about 40k are the miniatures and the universality of the rules (I can travel around anywhere and Im almost guaranteed to find an opponent to play against, not necessarily true for the other games out there). The rules really arent that great and the game isnt that enjoyable to make it worth the time and effort otherwise.

If you're not playing 40k rules, you're not playing 40k. By all means, play whatever it is however you want, but if you actually want to play 40k you should play it like everyone else. Otherwise, it's just going to be your group of friends and that's it, in which case, our input isn't needed anyway since we aren't even playing the same game....

If you're looking to get into it with a minimal investment, and play amongst yourselves I'd recommend getting 6th edition and the last softcover codexes for each faction. They are dirt cheap on Ebay right now that most players transitioned over to 7th and the hardcover codexes.

The rules are also close enough that if you decide to upgrade to 7th edition down the road there won't be much of learning curve needed to do so.

Use 7th ed! For all the complaints, 7th ed is a fantastic house rule edition and maelstrom of war objectives are much more fun than the old edition "kick the nuts off each other then claim objectives on the last turn".

And as for some sneaky tricks...

-Eisenkern make awesome IG! I also use Dust Tactics German vehicles as my Leman Russes. IG are really the easiest army to proxy up.

-Necrons are also an easy army to play with. Straight up Warrior boxes are very cost efficient for GW (12 models and bonus scarabs for the cost of a normal 10 man squad box) and warrior legs and bodies can be used to get both special choices out of the special unit boxes. (You can get both Deathmarks and Immortals by using warrior bodies for the immortals for example). The Catacomb Command barge comes with a free HQ unit (overlord) and you don't need to glue the gun, so you can play with either the Annhilation barge or CCB. Ditto for the Night/Doom Scythe-the gun doesn't need to be glued.

-Spess Mehrines are a wee bit trickier but they tend to be the "I am starting 40k what should I play Gwarsh these guys are on all the posters I'll play them" so poorly painted SM armies aren't hard to grab on the cheap off eBay. Just remember: simple green is your friend for all your un-painting needs. always buy shittily painted. Never look back.

-Orks are tough to get proxy, but they were cheap and cheerful as half the last starter pack. When I was buying my boyz, I bought 200 black reach boyz for 100 bucks, and then bought a box of random spare ork bits for another 30, and it came packed with burnas, shootas, deff guns, rokkits and big shootas-my Green Tide was instantly complete.

Other than that, I can only say good luck, and have fun!

I also recommend using the 7th ed. rules. If you guys end up getting really big into the game, it'll help to know the current rules so you can go to clubs and stores.

Buying into 7th sounds like it's out of the OP's price range. If its just them playing whatever, buy a used older edition for cheap and have at it.

That's one of the problems, 40k is too expensive for many people to get into. A codex shouldn't cost $60 and the rules shouldn't be that much either, let alone $80.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Buying into 7th sounds like it's out of the OP's price range. If its just them playing whatever, buy a used older edition for cheap and have at it.

That's one of the problems, 40k is too expensive for many people to get into. A codex shouldn't cost $60 and the rules shouldn't be that much either, let alone $80.

Hm, that's a good point. 6th ed. isn't that different from 7th, so they could always use the 'old' book. Or they could illegaly download whichever version they prefer, not that I would endorse that or anything.

Not everyone plays in stores and clubs, or ever intends to.

6th is current enough to get your feet wet with a minimal investment.

The newest starter box is the way to go (or stormclaw if ya like wolves/orks although it doesnt have the templates)

There are ways to get around some of the stuff and save $ if you or one of your buddies likes marines. Just get whatever "marine" models are cheapest/ you like and paint them your colors. My marines have dark angel, wolf and basic and some other I think all painted up in MY colors.
You can usually find the last edition DV box fairly cheap for dice/models. Something else may help is use of magnets and there are other modeling/converting tips you can pick up to save $.

I too would recommend using the latest actual rules. Tweaking for house rules is fine so long as you remember they are house rules only when you play others.

Definately delve into the lore and look see what models you like (understanding that some armies cost less than others or have better "deals") and have at it.

Pretty sure you could find a 7th ed starter set on Ebay or Amazon for less than you could get it from GW. The internet is filled with all kinds of sites and resellers, and sometimes you can get books for a steal.

Dark Vengeance is a great starter set and comes with two armies and the newest rulebook. That being said, you can always pick up some guys for the cheap on eBay and get the 6th edition rulebook. 6th is pretty close to 7th in terms of getting into the game. The codices and the rulebook are going to be one of the most expensive parts of the game, so bear that in mind.

Also, see if you can find a local game store that plays 40k. Sometimes they have new player nights and may have armies you can use to play, but they should at least have games you can watch.

I completely approve of this thread and it sounds really nice what you are doing.

I think the more you can do to play for cheap and with people who are your friends, the better off you are and more fun you will have.

Playing the newest edition of 40k is probably for the best, especially if you ever want to play with people outside your immediate circle or invite more people in, as they're more likely to be familiar with whatever's current. If two of you go halvsies on a Dark Vengeance set (for 20% cheaper from the Warstore, obviously) you can get the rules and little starter armies for Chaos and Dark Angels. That'd be a good way to get started.

It sounds like you're going into this with the right mindset. How big's your group?

7th is pretty nice if you're in it for the fun, and not in it to win it every game. Maelstrom missions CAN be exciting, with swings back and forth. Except for deadlock. F that mission.

The real problems with the current edition start cropping up when you get into the more competitive aspect, as some games can be near auto-losses.

oooook , so what exactly do you want us to tell you ?

Why not just start buy buying the starter box?

I would definitely recommend 7th edition. It really is a lot of fun and if you want to make the game more tactical/competitive you can just download the tournament pack for the BAO/LVO from http://www.frontlinegaming.org/ who BTW also sell GW and other product for 20% off so that can help.

Most importantly though is to start at 700 pts and stay there until you are convinced you really want more and are going to stick with the game. At 700 pts any of the armies is manageable in both cost and time. Once you start wanting to go to stores to play and to expand your collection to 1500+ pts my recommendations below are more relevant.

The cheapest armies right now are;
*Dark Angel terminator and bike armies (dark vengeance terminators and bikes go for fairly cheap on ebay still, these models are also universally accepted for use in Space Marine armies).
*Grey Knights terminator + paladin armies (very low model count so it is also a really easy army to start and store).
*Chaos Daemons daemon prince + Greater Daemons + 2 troops (nurglings are best). This an 11 model army so again easy to store and paint. This is also the army that is easiest to proxy as you need; 3 large daemons, 2 more specific looking large daemons, and six 40 mm bases with little things (I have seen maggots, nurglings, irradiated vines, imps, etc. used and they all looked great).

Armies which could work well but are not recommended as they are hard for new players to play against;
*Eldar with a bunch of waveserpents
*5 Imperial Knights
*Necrons either AV13 vehicles everywhere or airforce

Armies you should definitely not start with due to high costs and a huge commitment in time;
*Astra Militarum is a awesome army and I love them but they will cost you 1k usd to get a decent army and painting 200 infantry and 10+ vehicles is a commitment on the level of getting married. Painting 200 faces btw makes you want to have kids just to start a sweat shop.
*Tyranids have a great look to them and some of their army builds are very fun but again you will spend 800 usd to get a decent army and end up painting 100+ models all requiring dry brushing and shading, ugh.
*Orks are great looking and one of the funnest armies to play as or against. Their committed players are also some of the best people to spend an afternoon with. However again you need 100+ infantry and 10+ vehicles for a decent army so the cost in money and time is very high.
*Adepta Sororitas are an army made entirely of metal and resin models. their price is insanely high to collect and they never get any of the love directed at the other armies. They look great but they are a passion that will leave your wallet and fingers broken, cut, and bleeding.

Armies that are great but are not great starter armies;
*Space Marines are a great army and their price is reasonable but they are both more expensive overall than the recommended armies and are a difficult army to play well. If you start them expect to take loses until you learn to use all the game elements well.
*Chaos Space Marines look awesome, sound awesome, and can be awesome in a very good players hands with a very large budget. Otherwise all the good units are expensive kits and they are extremely hard to play well.
*Dark Eldar may be one of my favorite looking armies but not cheap, are difficult to transport and store, and are tough to play. Once you get good with dark eldar though you will be really good.
*Eldar are a very strong codex but waveserpent give a lot of players both new and old fits to play against and without waveserpents the army becomes either extremely expensive or tends to work poorly.
*Necrons have 3 essential styles; lots of tanks, lots of flyers, and lots of infantry (or swarms). The lots of tanks and flyers options are very hard for new players to deal with and will limit what your friends choices while the lots of infantry and swarms is expensive and is a large commitment to assemble.

Those are my recommendations and reasons. Good luck in getting started and hope you all have a lot of fun.

Thankyou all for the great response

Ansacs: Thanks for the advice....The Astra Millitarum, despite the great investment required, will probably be one of our armies, due to the Versatility of the lists and the ease of Proxie'ing.

Brother SRM: 8 People at any given time, give or take a couple depending on schedule's and stuff.

Anyway, after some deliberation, we've decided that we're going 7th ed; what we don't like about the rules, we can make houserules about, and knowing how to play/building an army for the latest ed will make our option greater. I hope to post our progress and maybe some battle reports here.

Sounds good. I wish you many fun games.

BTW Whoever ends up starting up Astra Millitarum will want to get comfortable with strategically trading away their troops lives. Many new AM players try too hard to keep their models alive through the game and end up with massive losing streaks.

1: We're all good friends, and none of us are are hardcore list-builders, so gentlemen's agreements and thematic/lorebased armies shall probably be the rule.
2: We will be playing for fun, so we can and will bend lore and rules if need be.

Luckily, this is what 40k rules are designed for. Not the super competitive scene that dominates tactic/list threads.

If you and your friends are in it for the fun, thematics, and general neatness that is 40k, that is exactly what you will get.

I can't recommend 40k to people any more. The game is an absurdly expensive, clunky, unbalanced trainwreck. You can shoehorn it into something resembling an actual game, but the effort and money involved can be better spent elsewhere.

If you want to enjoy 40k without spending a lot of money. Try these great alternatives.

http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portfolio/one-page-40k/

It's an easy and intuitive ruleset that's free, has much better balance between factions and options and you can get all the fun of playing with friends.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5105

Conquest is a Living Card Game by Fantasy Flight. A Living Card game is not like MtG, no cards rotate out, no booster packs and you know what you're getting every time. By default, the game is easier to pick up and more balanced.

There's also Dark Heresy for a more RPG format.

Try these out before sinking a ton into 40k.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
I can't recommend 40k to people any more. The game is an absurdly expensive, clunky, unbalanced trainwreck. You can shoehorn it into something resembling an actual game, but the effort and money involved can be better spent elsewhere.

If you want to enjoy 40k without spending a lot of money. Try these great alternatives.

http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portfolio/one-page-40k/

It's an easy and intuitive ruleset that's free, has much better balance between factions and options and you can get all the fun of playing with friends.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5105

Conquest is a Living Card Game by Fantasy Flight. A Living Card game is not like MtG, no cards rotate out, no booster packs and you know what you're getting every time. By default, the game is easier to pick up and more balanced.

There's also Dark Heresy for a more RPG format.

Try these out before sinking a ton into 40k.

The thread is called "So, me and my friends are getting into 40k." That's like going to someone asking for a good burger place and saying "I can't recommend burgers to anyone. Go here for a great steak." Why would you come in here and try and dissuade him from it?

 jreilly89 wrote:
The thread is called "So, me and my friends are getting into 40k." That's like going to someone asking for a good burger place and saying "I can't recommend burgers to anyone. Go here for a great steak." Why would you come in here and try and dissuade him from it?

OnePage40k
Warhammer 40,000: Conquest
Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy

What exactly is "not 40k" about those? The OP wants to get into 40k but doesn't have a lot of money, a gaming group pretty much restricted to only friends and I assume would like to play a fun game. All 3 of these fit those criteria and are great ways to enjoy 40k.

If he wants a burger, why does he have to go to some overpriced chain restaurant when there are so many alternative burger joints that offer a superior product for significantly less expense?

 Chumbalaya wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
The thread is called "So, me and my friends are getting into 40k." That's like going to someone asking for a good burger place and saying "I can't recommend burgers to anyone. Go here for a great steak." Why would you come in here and try and dissuade him from it?

OnePage40k
Warhammer 40,000: Conquest
Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy

What exactly is "not 40k" about those? The OP wants to get into 40k but doesn't have a lot of money, a gaming group pretty much restricted to only friends and I assume would like to play a fun game. All 3 of these fit those criteria and are great ways to enjoy 40k.

If he wants a burger, why does he have to go to some overpriced chain restaurant when there are so many alternative burger joints that offer a superior product for significantly less expense?

Because he sounds like he wants to play actual 40k. Conquest is a card game. Dark Heresy is more RPG than traditional 40k TT. One page 40k may actually be good, but might hurt him when he tries to adapt to the newest edition of rules.

Why go for watered down experiences when you can have the real thing? He already said he and his friends are going to proxy stuff, so money should not be that big of an issue. Also, you can "obtain" the newest codices and rules free of charge, so that should not be an issue either. Last, they said they would house rule whatever they found stupid/difficult to play. So why play an already watered down version when he more or less stated he wants to play TT 40k?

Having seen everything from Rogue Trader to now, my best thoughts on how to proceed:

Armies I would have you guys pick in order of priority:
IG/AM; Is a good choice since they are the "face" of the imperium, they are the brave average Joe sent to take on the dark. (The best Huge / heavy units as well).
Space Marines: Pick one. They are the other flavor of the Imperium and are the core army (multiple box sets, should get deals).
Orks: Because they are truly alien and bring junk-tech to a whole new level and inject some fun in the "grim-dark". (Nice Huge / Heavy units as well). (In box sets, should get some deals).
Eldar: They are truly alien in all things. Smooth and organic to the Ork's rough and bolted-on.
Chaos: The angry face of the warp and corrupted space marines! The daemonic engines are starting to give them their own character (In a box set!)
Dark Eldar: Space pirates. Raiders. Came out in a box set 3rd edition, may still be stuff out there, new codex out with new models.
Tau: The new race, something to get into if you like your Gundam.
Necron: Robot undead. Lots of fancy stuff, if you like skeletons and coffin shapes this is your army.
Tyranid: bugs, been around for a long time. The classic horde army. At least get some gene-stealers to play with terminators in a space-hulk...
All the rest are fancy little extras that tend to want to ally with someone.

7th edition might as well be the start.
Lots of supplementary stuff to get an idea of all the stories around.
What I like is the "special rules" where if you wanted to house rule something, changing that one thing touches on multiple units : modular rules.
I would use the "fluff" as your guide for team-ups

I would say play the rules exactly as written for a few games.
Look at where you spend lots of time that you would consider "not fun".
Ask around for advice or modify a rule and see if you can speed it up in that particular instance.
I would say use 5th edition wound allocation to squads and use most other rules and see if that makes the game run a bit better.
"Closest to closest" has made moving and shooting such a mess in my mind.

Points costs for "impressive" (cheap, jack of all trades) units may be something to look at as well if you are looking for balance.

Good luck!

Check out the swap shop. Lots of good deals there too.