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So, I know that dakka loves a good religion thread, and an idea sprang to mind, and I'm wondering if I'm "on the right track" or "a bit weird" or just completely mental


OK, so we generally all know that, in order to get to the Christian version of heaven, you have to believe in Christ as the sole savior, etc etc.

In order to get to Muslim's "Paradise" you have to practice Islam and the 5 pillars of faith, etc. etc.


In order to get into Valhalla, as Vikings believed, one had to die a "Warriors death", which brings me to my question, and the point of this thread:


Under the beliefs of those who follow Heathenry (and it's various forms, such as Asatru, etc), if the Valkyries select warriors who die good deaths to go to Valhalla, do those warriors need to necessarily believe in the Norse Gods to do so? Afterall, in order to fight Ragnarok, Odin and Co. want/need the best warriors available.

I would think they would take anyone worthy.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Under the beliefs of those who follow Heathenry (and it's various forms, such as Asatru, etc), if the Valkyries select warriors who die good deaths to go to Valhalla, do those warriors need to necessarily believe in the Norse Gods to do so? Afterall, in order to fight Ragnarok, Odin and Co. want/need the best warriors available.

That brings some Marvel Thor story to my mind. The one where Thor travel back in time to enlists the help of a luftwaffe pilot.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I would think they would take anyone worthy.

Spoiler:

Whoa... there is a religion involving dinosaurs and vikings? Because I'd be open to that.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
So, I know that dakka loves a good religion thread, and an idea sprang to mind, and I'm wondering if I'm "on the right track" or "a bit weird" or just completely mental


OK, so we generally all know that, in order to get to the Christian version of heaven, you have to believe in Christ as the sole savior, etc etc.

In order to get to Muslim's "Paradise" you have to practice Islam and the 5 pillars of faith, etc. etc.


In order to get into Valhalla, as Vikings believed, one had to die a "Warriors death", which brings me to my question, and the point of this thread:


Under the beliefs of those who follow Heathenry (and it's various forms, such as Asatru, etc), if the Valkyries select warriors who die good deaths to go to Valhalla, do those warriors need to necessarily believe in the Norse Gods to do so? Afterall, in order to fight Ragnarok, Odin and Co. want/need the best warriors available.

From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

I don't think odin would care if you believed in him or not as he needs lots of warriors to fight giants. He must have been very happy in WW1 and WW2. I wonder if he is an EEO employer?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I would think they would take anyone worthy.

Spoiler:

Whoa... there is a religion involving dinosaurs and vikings? Because I'd be open to that.

Artwork for Dino D-Day (Source game set in WWII where the nazi's have a bunch of dinosaurs to help them fight.)

If you have to be religious to be chosen.....explain Harry Dresden.

 Sienisoturi wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
So, I know that dakka loves a good religion thread, and an idea sprang to mind, and I'm wondering if I'm "on the right track" or "a bit weird" or just completely mental


OK, so we generally all know that, in order to get to the Christian version of heaven, you have to believe in Christ as the sole savior, etc etc.

In order to get to Muslim's "Paradise" you have to practice Islam and the 5 pillars of faith, etc. etc.


In order to get into Valhalla, as Vikings believed, one had to die a "Warriors death", which brings me to my question, and the point of this thread:


Under the beliefs of those who follow Heathenry (and it's various forms, such as Asatru, etc), if the Valkyries select warriors who die good deaths to go to Valhalla, do those warriors need to necessarily believe in the Norse Gods to do so? Afterall, in order to fight Ragnarok, Odin and Co. want/need the best warriors available.

From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

Do you mean belief in this life, or the afterlife?

 Sienisoturi wrote:
From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

Yeah... No.

This is what my friend, an Army chaplain who studied theology and is currently in seminary had to say about it:

"Impossible. But its more than that. Heaven is the waystation, where we wait until New Restored Creation. Over emphasis on heaven is a medieval construct. The new creation will be perfect unity with Christs eternal kingdom. To be out of union with Him (by accepting him as savior AND lord - which is the hard part) is to reject citizenship to that kingdom and thus be expelled from it."

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

This is interesting, please explain?

GG

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Sienisoturi wrote:
From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

Yeah... No.

This is what my friend, an Army chaplain who studied theology and is currently in seminary had to say about it:

"Impossible. But its more than that. Heaven is the waystation, where we wait until New Restored Creation. Over emphasis on heaven is a medieval construct. The new creation will be perfect unity with Christs eternal kingdom. To be out of union with Him (by accepting him as savior AND lord - which is the hard part) is to reject citizenship to that kingdom and thus be expelled from it."

Which is one theological interpretation. It is also not the only one. There are arguments that can and have been made that support Sienisoturi's statement.

If you die with weapon in hand and all your wounds to the front, you have a chance of ending up in Valhalla. Whether you believe in Valhalla and the Norse Pantheon is irrelevant. They believe in you.


Most heathen religions placed a much smaller emphasis on 'belief' and 'faith' than do Abrahamic ones. The Gods are simply there.

 generalgrog wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in christianity, you don't need to believe in christ to get to heaven.

This is interesting, please explain?

GG

I didn't say that one

 Bromsy wrote:
If you die with weapon in hand and all your wounds to the front, you have a chance of ending up in Valhalla. Whether you believe in Valhalla and the Norse Pantheon is irrelevant. They believe in you.


Most heathen religions placed a much smaller emphasis on 'belief' and 'faith' than do Abrahamic ones. The Gods are simply there.

Don't believe you need to die with your wounds in the front, no? Isn't the requirement just dying honorably in battle, even if that means taking a javelin to the back?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
If you die with weapon in hand and all your wounds to the front, you have a chance of ending up in Valhalla. Whether you believe in Valhalla and the Norse Pantheon is irrelevant. They believe in you.


Most heathen religions placed a much smaller emphasis on 'belief' and 'faith' than do Abrahamic ones. The Gods are simply there.

Don't believe you need to die with your wounds in the front, no? Isn't the requirement just dying honorably in battle, even if that means taking a javelin to the back?

Yeah, what if you're surrounded?

 jreilly89 wrote:


Don't believe you need to die with your wounds in the front, no? Isn't the requirement just dying honorably in battle, even if that means taking a javelin to the back?

I believe that is/was the case as well.... Also in the same line of reasoning, the Spartan "motto" of "Come back with your shield, or on it"

It's called taking a little poetic license, ya damned curmudgeons.

 Sienisoturi wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
So, I know that dakka loves a good religion thread, and an idea sprang to mind, and I'm wondering if I'm "on the right track" or "a bit weird" or just completely mental


OK, so we generally all know that, in order to get to the Christian version of heaven, you have to believe in Christ as the sole savior, etc etc.

In order to get to Muslim's "Paradise" you have to practice Islam and the 5 pillars of faith, etc. etc.

In order to get into Valhalla, as Vikings believed, one had to die a "Warriors death", which brings me to my question, and the point of this thread:

Under the beliefs of those who follow Heathenry (and it's various forms, such as Asatru, etc), if the Valkyries select warriors who die good deaths to go to Valhalla, do those warriors need to necessarily believe in the Norse Gods to do so? Afterall, in order to fight Ragnarok, Odin and Co. want/need the best warriors available.

From a theological point of view, it could be argued, that atleast in Christianity, you don't need to believe in Christ to get to heaven.

Correct, though that applies only to those who die without knowledge of salvation. Those people are judged according to their own conscience. This sounds easy but is considered harder than acceptance of salvatkon as a gift, which requires no moral prerequisite.

Norse religion did not require specific faith, the Gods just were those worthy of Valhalla would be invited in regardless of which faction they fought.

No all Pagan relgions are similar though, Celtic religion isnt, it's more tribal, Greek religion is universal but faith is a stange concept as you keep faith with individual deities and need not keep faith with any specific one and can still enter Elysium.
As a rule demands to believe in a single specific God are the hallmark of monotheistic faith.

There's really little known about how Germanic paganism was practiced. I believe the bulk of the source material comes from one guy in Iceland in the 1200s, Snorri Sturluson, and this material makes suggestions that the Norse gods were actually kings that developed cults after death (something like Julius Caesar).

Give his two books a read, if you don't find the genre too dull...it's probably the closest thing to authentic that's available. Better than an Amon Amarth song, anyways.

 jasper76 wrote:
There's really little known about how Germanic paganism was practiced. I believe the bulk of the source material comes from one guy in Iceland in the 1200s, Snorri Sturluson, and this material makes suggestions that the Norse gods were actually kings that developed cults after death (something like Julius Caesar).

Give his two books a read, if you don't find the genre too dull...it's probably the closest thing to authentic that's available. Better than an Amon Amarth song, anyways.

From an academic point of view, his writing/translation of old Norse traditions, stories and myths have the problem of him being a Christian... There are many learned individuals that I've read recently who are of the opinion that he made the Norse pantheon much, much too close to the Greeks (Odin, being the All-Father was also the King, and chief god, with Thor, Loki and others falling into their place in the hierarchy) and that in reality, the "chief" god of the Norse would depend on the village/town, as well as the individual. Ie, a fishing village on the coast's chief deity probably would have been Njord.


As for the Germanic paganism, I agree with you, but perhaps their practices were much closer to Sturluson's writings (as in, a clearly defined hierarchy) as we know that, they were very similar linguistically (Wotan = Odin, etc)