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...So. The Legion Of The Damned Codex - it's pretty, it has nice artwork, and it has a unique detachment, relic, warlord trait table....but how do I actually get any realistic use out of it?

1 - The Legion still has Aid Unlooked For. That means that any Legion Of The Damned squad starts in reserve and comes onto the board from turn two onwards. That in turn means a 'pure' legion army is impossible as I must have a model on the board at the end of game turn 1.

2 - Whatever starts on the board has to be able to survive the attentions of the entire enemy army for one turn, including potential assassination/alpha strike shennanigans by sternguard in drop pods, infiltrating scouts in rapid fire range, heavy ordnance, etc, etc.

3 - If the army doesn't have at least three and ideally four units of Legion Of The Damned, it's not really a Legion army. The point of the Legion Of The Damned is that they're supposed to appear to save a beleaguered force - not send one squad to blow up a rhino in the midst of a major ongoing battle.

4 - I suspect that the best allies are probably not space marines. At least not in smaller games - after all, they could have taken Legion squads themselves by using their own elite slots.

5 - Like all armies which are reserve-dependent, some means of ensuring the reinforcements turn up on time is probably key. If one were to take Space Marine Allies, Tigurius strikes me as a good call for precisely this reason (plus he canonically was saved by the legion). - Other than that, a comms relay or something is probably a good idea.

6 - If the Legion Of The Damned squads are the army's primary units, how to arm them? A Multimelta seems like a good start - heavy flamers seem like a bad call, as your shots already ignore cover and can't fire overwatch.


Taking a starting stab:

Legion Of The Damned Detachment

Legion Of The Damned Squad - Multimelta, Power Fist
Legion Of The Damned Squad - Multimelta, Power Fist
Legion Of The Damned Squad - Multimelta, Power Fist
Legion Of The Damned Squad - Multimelta, Power Fist, The Animus Malorum, Warlord

Allied Detachment (Ultramarines)

Varro Tigurius
Tactical Squad - Missile Launcher, Flamer

~ This force strikes me as too heavily weighted in favour of the legion, and hence vulnerable to being tabled on turn 1. Any suggestions as to how to improve it?
~ The obvious way to free up points is to take a Legion 'Command Squad' - i.e. drop the Warlord's unit down to only 5 Damned Legionnaires, but what to do with them?
~ Is there a better Imperial 'groundholding' allied detachment? Astra Militarum, maybe?
~ Given the new detachment rules, I could breath the whole legion force down into five-man units and take a second detachment - going down a many small units approach. Is that a good idea?

Looks cool.

IMHO, I think you could consider arm one or two LotD squad with plasma gun and PC, to add some anti infantry power, especially against those with 3+ or 2+ ones. I also propose to take melta gun and combi melta in those squads arming MM, to give more threat to enemy vehicles, I think maybe two or three of these kind of squad canbe enough threat to wave serpents, Necrone AV13s, once you destroyed the vehicles with melta, your relentless plasma can fire on those passengers.

...

Okay.

breaking up the squads:

Legion Of The Damned Detachment

Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta
Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta
Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta

Legion Of The Damned Detachment

Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Power Fist
Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Power Fist
Legion Of The Damned Squad (10) - Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Power Fist, The Animus Malorum, Warlord

Allied Detachment (Ultramarines)

Varro Tigurius
Tactical Squad - Missile Launcher, Flamer

Well you could have "last survivors" IG unit as allies, something with a bunker, void shields, comm relays, quad gun, and barriers minimum troops and HQ. If you run heavy weapon teams toss in an ammo dump. Now you can have nice hard nut to crack on turn one that is both fluffy and useful since LoTD is going to be light on AA.

i think Astra Militarum would be your best ally.

Tank Commander with 1 extra leman russ and some cheap vets could be done for around 400-450 points.

thats 2 av14 tanks for the enemy to deal with and a troops choice hiding out of LOS.

i love your idea but with the ingore cover rule i can't help but think:

1. melta is a waste over plasma. grab your anti tank else where. melta on vets and anti tank leman russes?

2. Plasma is twice the number of shots to melta with ingore cover. use this to your advantage.

if you wanted a good, tough ally, perhaps go SW will drop pods all over the place? if you are worried abound your opponent alpha striking you. why not do it to him? this way it does matter where youe enemy deploys, because you deploy nothing and then pods and troops are down turn 1 for you. you can then choose whether you play agressive or cautious depending on the opponents army.

just my 2 cents

I agree with Mixer, if you have a Plasma Gun and a Multi-Melta, you have an effective 24" range on the turn you drop (with re-roll scatter) and if you hit where you want, which would be around 12" from the target, you get double pen range on the melta and rapid fire on the plasma.

Using a regular melta gun really limits your placement as you want to be within 6" which is a lot more dangerous even with a re-roll.

I love LotD, I think they are one of the best things in the game. Who doesn't love the idea of a Heavy Metal Space Rock Band coming to the rescue?

No point in taking Tiggy as the damsel in distress - his reserve reroll only counts towards units in his own detachment (not allies). LotD Meltapods are one of the best SM Strike units in the game, but you need to give them MM so you can be within 12" rather than 6". The MG/Combimelta are just their for insurance or if you get lucky with the scatter. Plasma pods are also great, so you should take both in equal measure. Even just HB & Chainsword on the serg. is a good LotD unit for crowd control (rapid fire & charge same turn, ignores cover, causes fear and 16 attacks on the charge, with the option of krak grenading MCs or medium vehicles to death).

A list I was thinking of running at an upcoming tourney:

SM Primary CAD (imperial Fists)

HQ
Libby, lv2 90

TROOPS
Scouts, Camo cloaks, 65
Scouts, Camo cloaks, 65

HEAVY
DEv, 2xLC, 2xPC 140

FORT
ADL, comms relay 70

ELTES
LotD, (5), MM, MG, CombiMelta 155
LotD, (5), MM, MG, CombiMelta 155
LotD, (5), MM, MG, CombiMelta 155

ALLIES DETACHMENT

LotD, PC, PG, Combiplasma 165
LotD, PC, PG, Combiplasma 165
LotD, HB, CCW on serg., CombiMelta 135
LotD, HB, CCW on serg., CombiMelta 135

1495 pts

Strategy would be for scouts to hit the deck somewhere out of the way (some nice ruins maybe) for 2+ cover save, while the DEV and Libby go behind the ADL. If Libby gets invisibility or shrouding off, great. If not, these guys hit the deck to for 2+. Also use night fighting for stealth. That way at least something should survive turn1, and almost all your LotD should come in turn two with the comms relay. Roll on strategic traits for warlord and try to get strategic genius as a back up incase you loose the guy manning the comms relay.

Hmmm...

I still want to keep the multimeltas - the legion is going to be the bulk of my killing power - but good point on the plasma guns. I'm thinking of Multimelta, Plasma gun as a standard arm.

If Tigurius isn't going to help the Legion arrive then there definitely needs to be something else.

Was having a think last night, and was reading the Legion Of The Damned novel. Decided to try doing the Excoriators.

Obviously it's a slight change of storyline but the Excoriators get besieged on the Cemetary World of Certusia - I had the idea of using the walls from the Garden Of Morr terrain as an aegis line (yes, it's taller, but if I'm using it for cover saves not blocking line of sight that doesn't really matter). Plus, the statue of Morr works as the comms relay - it's marking the tomb where an astartes hero was buried or something similar.

Certainly a normal comms relay makes no sense, any more than it does with a daemons army*, but the statue of Morr kind of works.

I know the Strategic Traits would probably be better, but I want the Legion to have the warlord because reasons.

Combined Arms Detachment - Space Marines (Imperial Fists)
~ Librarian
~ Tactical Squad (5) - Flamer
~ Tactical Squad (10) - Missile Launcher
~ Aegis Line - Comms Relay

Legion Of The Damned Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma

Legion Of The Damned Primary Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (10) - Multimelta, Plasma Gun, Power Fist, Animus Malorem (Warlord)



* Who exactly is on the other end of the vox channel?

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I love your automated service.

Another option.
How about a Guard blob?
They are cheap as dirt, really hard to kill off and can surprisingly do some work.
Think 5 Lascannons, Priest and 50 bodies to get shot. Then pick a Warlord that can go in the unit.

locarno24 wrote:Hmmm...

I still want to keep the multimeltas - the legion is going to be the bulk of my killing power - but good point on the plasma guns. I'm thinking of Multimelta, Plasma gun as a standard arm.

The key to LotD Shock tactics is specialization. Don't mix your fit outs for the LotD units, they will not perform as well as you think and you will not cause enough damage the turn they arrive - go all Melta or Plasma in each unit, and make sure you send the Meltas after Heavy vehicles/MCs and the Plasma after Medium & Light vehicles/MEQ/HQs and Elites. You should also have some HB / Chainsword fit out for taking on light troops (as I said, 8 rapid fire bolters/3HB followed by 16 attacks on the charge with Fear will clear most medium/light infantry unit in one turn).

Example:

Mixed MM PG unit go after an AV13 unit and get within 12 " MM pens on 5+ on 2D6, 2 shots from Plasma can only glance on 6+
MM MG Combimelta unit go after an AV13 unit and get within 12 " MM pens on 5+ on 2D6, 2 x MG glance on 5+, pen on 6+ and all add +2 to damage table (due to being AP1). Get within 6" (with LotD scatter reroll is not bad odds) and all three hits pen on 5+ on 2D6

Sorry to go slightly mathammer there, but it is important to understand why specialization is so important with this kind of strike unit. Better to be excellent at one thing than mediocre at some. The same example works in reverse for plasma fit out, where increase number of shots and a blast will give you more hits vs AV10 / 2+ armour save units.

Sick Bag wrote:How about a Guard blob?

This could also work, just depends on whether your opponent has lots of pie plates or not? Do you know what you will be fighting?

IIRC can't you take 2 special weapons in LotD instead on 1 special 1 heavy?

I would run meltaguns and plasma guns over Pcannon and MMelta

 mixer86 wrote:
IIRC can't you take 2 special weapons in LotD instead on 1 special 1 heavy?

I would run meltaguns and plasma guns over Pcannon and MMelta

Nope, one special and one heavy per squad only, with a combi on the serg if you want it.

Besides, why would you take them instead of PC / MM? LotD are slow and purposeful and can fire the heavies while moving (and then charge too), so there is no real reason not to take them.

 Iapedus wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:
IIRC can't you take 2 special weapons in LotD instead on 1 special 1 heavy?

I would run meltaguns and plasma guns over Pcannon and MMelta

Nope, one special and one heavy per squad only, with a combi on the serg if you want it.

Besides, why would you take them instead of PC / MM? LotD are slow and purposeful and can fire the heavies while moving (and then charge too), so there is no real reason not to take them.

My thinking was if i am DS my plasma armed LotD i am wanting them in rapid fire range when they turn up. this, as part of course, makes the plasma cannon a risk to my troops as well as the enemy.

ergo, i would prefer to have guns over cannons. but if you can't then hey ho.

I dunno. I just felt like I should have some antitank capability in each squad. The fact that they can't take meltabombs bugs me, because I can see walkers or superheavies pinning squads down when I strike in at close range.

Modified (again) - just rearranging the points, really - for every plasma gun I 'demote' to a meltagun, a multimelta can be 'promoted' to a plasma cannon.
Still come out 15 points ahead by dropping the plasma gun and swapping to a heavy bolter, so might as well pack flame weapons in case I get a chance to use them.
I'll stick with the power fist - If going into close combat, a guy who can hold his own in challenges isn't a bad idea, especially since he's got a 3+ invulnerable save followed by Feel No Pain, so I'm fairly happy he'll be around to swing, and a WS5 power fist someone who can reliably flatten a Sergeant or Nob strikes me as a good idea.

Plus, the warlord's unit being an oversized one seems logical because (a) protecting him from slay the warlord, (b) he makes models in his unit tougher with the Animus, and (c) more bolters in the 'crowd control' unit makes sense. Plus, if I roll the 'armourbane bolt rounds' warlord trait, the unit becomes a nice shiny tank-hunting unit as well

Also - I could re-designate that 10-man squad as a devastator unit. They'd lose Objective Secured, but gain a Signum and Tank Hunter for the missile launcher. Thoughts?

Combined Arms Detachment - Space Marines (Imperial Fists)
~ Librarian
~ Tactical Squad (5) - Flamer
~ Tactical Squad (10) - Missile Launcher
~ Aegis Line - Comms Relay

Legion Of The Damned Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

Legion Of The Damned Primary Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (10) - Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Fist, Animus Malorem (Warlord)

locarno24 wrote:

Combined Arms Detachment - Space Marines (Imperial Fists)
~ Librarian
~ Tactical Squad (5) - Flamer
~ Tactical Squad (10) - Missile Launcher
~ Aegis Line - Comms Relay

Legion Of The Damned Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Multimelta, Melta Gun, Combi-Melta

Legion Of The Damned Primary Detachment
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (5) - Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma
~ Legion Of The Damned Squad (10) - Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Power Fist, Animus Malorem (Warlord)

Yeah, I think this list will do a lot better.

Would definitely consider taking DEVs in the Imp. Fists if you can find the points (2x 5 man squads behind split clusters of ADL will take some killing and give you great fields of fire) but I think you will struggle to met your troop requirements. ObSec is obviously going to be an issue for this list too, but I guess your strategy is gonna have to just be to kill everything in site and claim the objectives by default