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Hey guys, i'm wondering if the Guardians of the Deepwood would be a good starting point for a wood elves army, and what to add if it isn't. Im looking to just start small to see if i prefer this to 40k, but I would like painting the treekin anyways

I actually don't play wood elves so can't say how good it is but my friend bought it with the wood elf release to add to his army and I think it's a cool bundle

Dryads are my favourite wood elf unit so I'd go for it. Three of the treemen might be a bit overkill but I mean would be a fun way to start the army. Not the most conventional tho


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does save you about $100 tho so that's like getting a treemen plus some dryads for free.

If you want some additional savings try shopping from a discounter in the states. You could get the bundle for $185 US dollars (pm me if you wanna know who I use)

 chiefbigredman wrote:
I actually don't play wood elves so can't say how good it is but my friend bought it with the wood elf release to add to his army and I think it's a cool bundle

Dryads are my favourite wood elf unit so I'd go for it. Three of the treemen might be a bit overkill but I mean would be a fun way to start the army. Not the most conventional tho


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does save you about $100 tho so that's like getting a treemen plus some dryads for free.

If you want some additional savings try shopping from a discounter in the states. You could get the bundle for $185 US dollars (pm me if you wanna know who I use)

Thank you for the offer, but I'm headed into the nearby city (5 freaking hour drive) so i plan on getting it there, if they have it. Those savings are pretty sweet and I love the "protector of the wild" feel so the treemen and the dryands are perfect. are there any compulsory units I need to make a functioning army extra?

Well I don't know much about wood elves as I do play then and rarely play against them.
You can use one of the treemen as a treeman ancient which is a lord or hero choice (or the names treeman) I don't think that it is the best choice tho. Maybe pick up a few of the hero and lord choices on foot (maybe 2)

Your left with just dryads for your core choice.
You'll have zero special choices
You will have the remaining treemen for rates

I'm sure someone in here who plays wood elves can give you some more advice.
You do know that wood elves are a pretty difficult army to win with, just a headsup

Wood Elves are a lot easier to win with since the new book made them good.

The new book also made Dryads and Treemen awful, though.

Warpsolution wrote:
Wood Elves are a lot easier to win with since the new book made them good.

The new book also made Dryads and Treemen awful, though.

Oh? can you elaborate?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:
Wood Elves are a lot easier to win with since the new book made them good.

The new book also made Dryads and Treemen awful, though.

Oh? can you elaborate?

They can't take points. Dryads bleed combat res and tree kin still suffer from the "one bad round and you lose the entire unit" syndrome.

What else would you suggest then that would add to that battlepack or be better than it?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
What else would you suggest then that would add to that battlepack or be better than it?

Wild Riders. Glade Riders. Sisters of the thorn.

The first option is the softest though.

Dryads are only S3 now, which really does hurt them. Hatred, the loss of Skirmish, and a 1pt/model reduction are nice, but 11pts for a S3 T4 6+ model just isn't appealing.

Treekin changed, but not for the worse. They also got -1S, but they went down 20pts/model, too. I've seen them used to great effect. Hold the enemy down (while dishing out some pain yourself), and counter-charge with something else. Or Augment/Hex your way to victory.

Treemen are very expensive and not all that scary. They're tough, but not all that tough.
Treemen Ancients lose even more offensive ability and gain some very meek casting. They should have at least been able to pick from two or three Lores. Beasts, Life, Shadow. Something like that.

Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Wild Riders, Deep Wood Scouts, Treekin, the Sisters of Thorn, Waywatchers, Warhawk riders, and Great Eagles are the most common units I see.

Warpsolution wrote:
Dryads are only S3 now, which really does hurt them. Hatred, the loss of Skirmish, and a 1pt/model reduction are nice, but 11pts for a S3 T4 6+ model just isn't appealing.

Treekin changed, but not for the worse. They also got -1S, but they went down 20pts/model, too. I've seen them used to great effect. Hold the enemy down (while dishing out some pain yourself), and counter-charge with something else. Or Augment/Hex your way to victory.

Treemen are very expensive and not all that scary. They're tough, but not all that tough.
Treemen Ancients lose even more offensive ability and gain some very meek casting. They should have at least been able to pick from two or three Lores. Beasts, Life, Shadow. Something like that.

Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Wild Riders, Deep Wood Scouts, Treekin, the Sisters of Thorn, Waywatchers, Warhawk riders, and Great Eagles are the most common units I see.

The loss of skirmish is their biggest hit. They were a fast, mobile unit, which is what they are meant to be. Making them a ranked block just means they lose that. And they fill the same role as eternal guard, albeit worse. The T4 and hatred is the only thing they have over eternal guard. And TBH, the role they fill is not one the army needs. What the book needs is mobility and speed, which dryads and treekin can't offer.

Treekin can get away with the lack of mobility a bit more, but they lose out on combat. With their cost, they still cost more than an irongut and bring little Combat Res, whether static or otherwise. And due to their lack of stubborn and low LD, they can break frighteningly easily.

Treekin are Ogres with +1T, armour, and a Ward. They don't bring a lot of static CR, but within the General's range, they're steady.
In an army that can't take a hit, these guys can take one. And now, they can take that hit even better.

I'll agree that Skirmish fits Dryads better, but...I never saw them do well, before. Charge in, kill some guys, they test on Steadfast. Aaand proceed to grind said Dryads down. They were sacrificial units. You just hoped they could drag down some models and stall the rest long enough for you to make your move.
You can still do that, with units of 10. But now, they don't hit nearly as hard.

Warpsolution wrote:
Treekin are Ogres with +1T, armour, and a Ward. They don't bring a lot of static CR, but within the General's range, they're steady.
In an army that can't take a hit, these guys can take one. And now, they can take that hit even better.

I'll agree that Skirmish fits Dryads better, but...I never saw them do well, before. Charge in, kill some guys, they test on Steadfast. Aaand proceed to grind said Dryads down. They were sacrificial units. You just hoped they could drag down some models and stall the rest long enough for you to make your move.
You can still do that, with units of 10. But now, they don't hit nearly as hard.

8 dryads were 96 points. That's not enough to get you a win. And they're mostly just for double flees. And they can't do what they did. Their manoeuvrability was halved, at least. They no longer get unlimited reforms, and more importantly they're not stubborn in woods.

And Treekin don't bring that much of ANY combat res. They're WS4, and if you take magic to buff their combat ability, then you're doing it at the detriment of the rest of your army.

If they were written in a way so that you could buff them with the high/dark list, or the death list, that seem to be prevalent in the top-end warhammer events like ETC and whatnot, then yes, they'd be good. But, as it stands they're a unit that need to have a list built around them, and even then, they need to be your main point-sink.

...Dryads were ItP, so they couldn't flee anway.

But yeah, their maneuverability took a hit, and a minimum-sized unit costs a whopping 14pts more than before.

I've never seen Treekin just thrown right into the scariest combats. They're there to hold down the secondary threats while the rest of your otherwise glass cannon focuses on the stuff that'll kill you.

Still. I will say that they're not a common sight in Wood Elf lists, now.
Just that, if you want Forest Spirits, you're not totally crippling yourself when you bring Treekin, versus bringing a big block of Dryads or something.

Warpsolution wrote:
...Dryads were ItP, so they couldn't flee anway.

But yeah, their maneuverability took a hit, and a minimum-sized unit costs a whopping 14pts more than before.

I've never seen Treekin just thrown right into the scariest combats. They're there to hold down the secondary threats while the rest of your otherwise glass cannon focuses on the stuff that'll kill you.

Still. I will say that they're not a common sight in Wood Elf lists, now.
Just that, if you want Forest Spirits, you're not totally crippling yourself when you bring Treekin, versus bringing a big block of Dryads or something.

That's...not how double fleeing works. You flee with two units, and bounce THROUGH the dryads to get to safety.


As for treekin, you're generally starting 3-4 down, and you strike after your opponent. So, by the time they get to fight, you're generally 5-6 down.


As for the forest spirit point, I'd say they're just in the book for fluff purposes at this point(Apart from Wild Riders.) Because the elves are literally so good now, mostly.

That's not how double fleeing works?
Uh...yes it is. A unit flees. And then another does.

I thought you were saying that the Dryads were one or both of said units. But, in fact, what you are saying is that the Dryads are there to make the double-flee (the maneuver done by the other two units) better. Fair enough.

Warpsolution wrote:
That's not how double fleeing works?
Uh...yes it is. A unit flees. And then another does.

The two units actually flee through the dryads, rendering them uncatchable due to distances.


Which is what makes Double fleeing work.

Sure. But the Dryads are not themselves doing the fleeing. That was the source of my confusion, as stated above. But it's all cleared up now.

If you want a good Wood Elf list, I'd say stick to Elves. If you want a better one, avoid Eternal Guard, Wild Wood Rangers, and Wardancers, too.

And if you want the best elf lists, go fast cav! GW made that rule so good, it's unreal. Total dictation of the movement phase is so useful, and 10 ambushing glade riders is enough to ruin any war machine heavy army's deployment.

Heh. Yes. You'll be seeing a lot more of thedarkavenger's praise for Fast Cavalry.
And it is good.
And Ambushing Fast Cavalry with magic arrows is better.
And fast Cavalry that is also a Wizard and has a latent 4+ Ward save is great.

I've generally found playing against such lists to require a lot of careful planning for a late-game pay-off. Preventing them from skirting around my units and hedging them into a corner, turn by turn, weathering magic and shooting, until I can pin them down. Charge arcs/range, line of sight; all that stuff matters even more when your opponent gets to ignore half of the rules in the Movement phase. I play cautiously, and am either rewarded with a Big Win at the end when their units are trapped, or nothing at all, when they punch a hole in my line and slip through.

Yeah. Wild Riders are even more awkward. You have to block them in, AND refuse them the charge.


Also, the fast cav and I are just friends.

With benefits.

As a Skaven player, I don't mind Wild Riders as long as I can pit them against a big block. They do a ton of wounds, but they're just so fragile that it doesn't matter.
Then, though, there's the issue of getting to grips with any Wood Elf unit with a big block still in at least somewhat intact.

Warpsolution wrote:
As a Skaven player, I don't mind Wild Riders as long as I can pit them against a big block. They do a ton of wounds, but they're just so fragile that it doesn't matter.
Then, though, there's the issue of getting to grips with any Wood Elf unit with a big block still in at least somewhat intact.

4+ armour and a 6+ ward isn't THAT fragile. But I see your point. Death frenzied storm vermin are a solid counter, if they get there.

I'd also argue that msu skaven can do well in the elf meta. Fast cav means no static res, and your cheap troops can out deploy them.

Deathfrenzied Stormvermin are a fantastic counter; enough bodies to absorb the charge, and enough S4 attacks to wipe out a unit in a single phase.
Even my Clanrats and Slaves aren't units Wild Riders want to get caught in. I'll grind them down as they hack through rank after rank of cheap crap.

"MSU Skaven" is a bit of an oxymoron, since you can't take Clanrats or Slaves in truly small blocks. But I've seen some nasty things done with Stormvermin and Plague Monks like that. The only issue becomes hiding your characters and weathering the Panic checks.

When facing several big blocks, I'd actually be tempted to split fire onto multiple targets, so no one of them is something I'll get stuck in combat with. I'd rather face 4 blocks of 30 models than 3 blocks of 40 .