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Hello,

I've been reading the rules and found conflicting information about unit sizes. As I never played a rank and file game like this, how can I know the best way to dispose my troops? I don't want to paint 25 high elves warriors to later discover that for them to be worthy I need them in a 40 man formation.

Also, How you change configurations from game to game? Do I need a bunch of extra movement trays? Or you just stick the units together and called it good?

Movement trays are a must, in my opinion, especially if you run units of more than ten. It just takes too much time to move 20, 30, or more models one at a time.

As far as the size of the unit goes, that's a matter of personal taste, tactics, and limitations imposed by the rules of minimum (and occasionally maximum) unit size and tactical maneuverability.

Having said that, some units (and armies) work better with smaller or larger units. Elves often work well in multiple small units. Other armies (Skaven and Dwarves) really need big blocks to work.

Movement trays are cheap and easy to make. Just grab a sheet of plastikard and cut to shape.
Use strips, spare sprue, balsa wood etc if you want a raised edge.

There's just no way to answer how many model should be in each unit.

A defensive block that you want to stick around would generally have a small number of files, and large number of ranks. Operate for offensive units.

As the others have said.
Unit size is up to you and how you want to play them. Every size has risk and rewards.
Personally I am not a fan of horde formations or anything over about 35 (skaven)
Each unit will have a minimum size.
Some kind of movement tray is highly recommended however you do it. If you don't want to buy them there are plenty of ways to make them.

You can even make movement trays out of bits of cardboard! If you're, uh... me. I've done that.

My question is not about the trays themselves.

My question is about an ideal, or at least, viable way to play each unit. Like " beatstick warriors go 5x5, elites go 5x2, archers go 6x2 and so on..."

I know that there's no way apply this for everything, but I simply don't have the income to buy hundreds and hundreds os miniatures to discover some are nearly useless with that few models, or that I over spent on some units that work better in fewer models.

Is there at least some guidelines you use? 5 models frontline?

Tell us what you want to play (army and playstyle within the army), and we'll give you broad strokes of what you could do

If you want cheaper armies, look at alternative to GW, especially historical miniatures that are MUCH cheaper and of same (or even better) quality (Perry brothers for instance)
Of course, that can limit what army you can play if you're not into a crazy amount of conversions

I would like to play High Elves. Bretonnia also interest me.

I wished GW put some guidelines about it.

The size of your units really depends on who you face and what your battle plan is. It is rare that you will go less than 5 wide with most units because you lose rank bonus. But units of 5 or shooting units can break this.
By varying the width of your units you can adapt as necessary.
For example a horde 10 wide can attack in 3 ranks. But becomes especially unwieldy because of the width of the horde. wheeling the unit or finding room to charge may be difficult.
5 wide can fit better but may lose attacks.
6 wide is often discussed as the optimum width
Certain armies fair better with more specific or traditional builds but it really boils down to the player.

Good place to start with High Elves is the Island of Blood box. It has rules and exclusive, good models.

You can start with that small game philosophy and grow from there. Remember with High Elves that you can attack in an extra rank, so deep units are a good thing. A non-horde can attack in 3 ranks, a horde attacks in 4. A horde of spearmen not on the charge attacks in 5 ranks. Others can rules check me on that, as I play Empire.

None of the previous posters are meaning to be cagey on this issue, but literally there isn't a totally right answer. Deep units give you a better chance of steadfast. Wide hordes allow more attacks, but are a pain to maneuver. Small units move around easily, but don't put out or take the pain like big ones, but also aren't a big investment of points that can be taken out in one stroke.

So, here's another post that doesn't tell you what to do, but just offers suggestions. Welcome to WHFB, the game adults play.

Check out the army-specific websites for more specific information about specific units. You'll get much more focused advice there.

Bretonnia is an oddball. You have cheap men-at-arms, but with S4 (from the polearms) they actually can kill stuff. Going in ranks of 5 makes them steadfast, but using horde formation gives them a LOT more attacks so they can actually potentially win the combat. 30 is pretty much the minimum size of the unit, and 40 to 50 is not unheard of.

Knights go in ranks of 3. They have a special rule that allows them to not only get rank bonus (and disrupt steadfast) in ranks of 3, but also allows all the models on the flank to make full attacks on the charge as well. So a unit of 15 has 11 knights making full attacks and only one guy in the middle of the second rank making a supporting attack.

The size of a unit of knights depends on the job you want them to do. You'll want at least one big, deep block to disrupt steadfast. After that, one or more shallower formations to provide supporting charges helps as well. If you can charge three decent-sized units of knights into a target unit, you'll shatter most anything, especially if one of them hits it in the flank.

Keraun0s wrote:
My question is not about the trays themselves.

My question is about an ideal, or at least, viable way to play each unit. Like " beatstick warriors go 5x5, elites go 5x2, archers go 6x2 and so on..."

I know that there's no way apply this for everything, but I simply don't have the income to buy hundreds and hundreds os miniatures to discover some are nearly useless with that few models, or that I over spent on some units that work better in fewer models.

Is there at least some guidelines you use? 5 models frontline?

The number of models in a unit entirely depends on the particular unit, its unit type, and what the units purpose is.

As for some generalities, there are 2 basic types of formation. Bus and Horde.

Bus formations are usually meant to be steadfast as long as possible. Regular infantry and cavalry need to be a minimum of 5 models wide for this. usually they'll keep to that. Then you'll have 4-6 ranks depending on the specific unit.

Some infantry, like Warriors of Chaos, are better ran in units that are 6 wide. But thats because it ends up getting a few more attacks without sacrificing too many ranks. It also meshes with the number of models sold in a box.

Hordes are meant to maximize attacks going forward. For regular infantry and cavalry, this is minimum 10 models wide. You get an extra rank of attacks from the unit(normally 2, 3 for a unit in Horde formation)

Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry are a little different. Normal formation for them is 3 models wide. Horde is 6. Supporting attacks also have a cap of 3 from supporting models instead of 1.


Brettonians are basically the all Cav army. Their Bowmen are basically the only infantry unit you'd ever want to run. They'd get run in a 10 wide formation to maximize the number of shots, but even then its not the army's strength.

They have a unique formation called the Lance. Which is 3 wide for their Cavalry. The rules for it are detailed in the Brettonian army book. Basically more than normal dudes get to fight when they charge.

Typically, you'll have 3-5 units of knights of various types(all except the knights with great weapons are good) in units of 9-12. Not including characters. And they really like their characters.

You'll also have 1-2 Trebuchets. One of the best warmachines in the game.

Pegasus knights are also a good skirmishing unit for flanking or general annoyance.


High Elves are a more traditional infantry army with some Cav support. Infantry will be either 5 wide and 4-5 ranks deep or 10 wide and 3-5 ranks deep. Depends on the unit.

Then you'll have some characters, either on foot on horseback so they can hide in your units protected from cannons. They can take Dragon mounts, but its usually not a good idea unless you are adept at screening your dragons from cannons.

They have a couple good monsters in the form of the 2 Phoenix.

A HE army also always wants 2-3 Bolt Throwers.

20 is a good standard for high elves (and most non-horde armies, for that matter) for your spearmen and other infantry 5 wide, 4 deep is good. it gives you 4 ranks to help with winning fights, and with high elves rules about extra ranks, its good in horde formations (10 wide min.) adn regular formations. archers (ignoring sea guard for this one) are usualy 2 deep and 10 wide (for 20 man squads) but high elves can successfully go 3 deep thanks to martial prowes. this is by no means needed, but its a rough look on standard formations

I find that elves, with their high initiative, ASF, and general squshiness, want to drop as many attacks as possible before the other guy gets to swing, in the general hopes of reducing return strikes.

Horde formation can be unweidly, but it works pretty well for that purpose.

In 8E WFB, you win by destroying the other unit as fast as possible, not by trying to out combat-res it. Let's face it, max static combat res is +4 - banner and three extra ranks. Any halfway decent combat unit will overwhelm that in kills every turn.

I made many trays just for the reason one game i may play 20 of a unit the next i may play 30 and a couple more for different frontage 5,6,7. Its pretty cheap to do.

Tempered Hardboard + 1/4 x 1/4 inch bass or balsa wood = alot of cheap trays

If you want to magnetize them as well take some thin sheet metel or a flat sheet of adjustable stove pipe (much cheaper and thinner) cut to size and glue inside the rim of Balsa/bass wood. Rare earth magnets are cheap to get and everywhere.

If you are starting out, 20 is a good standard number for both spearmen and archers.
But you will find out that the exact number and formation greatly depends on your strategy, the enemy units you are facing, the points limit for the battle and the amount of terrain on the table.

You have constant factors and Variable factors.

Constant factors are
1-Minimum rank with to clamim rank bonus. Thus if you want a mainstay block that requires 5 models per rank, you will go 5 models or more.
2-Cost per miniature for the unit. It does not cost the same to make 5 ranks of 5 models vs 5 ranks of 7 models, the second option costs almost 50% more.

Variable factors are
Mainly the units porpouse.

For instance and to make a more clear cut example, we will use skaven storm vermin and Rat ogres.

Storm vermin cost 7 points a pop, require aditional ranks to get bonus leadership and are realively cheap for what they do when compared against the bast majority of the footmen out there.
RatOgres on the other hand, cost something like 40 points each (we will say 40 for arguments sake), have no armor, only 1 point of toughness higher than the vermin but have 3 strenght 5 attacks each and require 3 models to make a rank. meaning a minimum of 120 points to make a rank as oposed to 35 for the vermin.

Those are you constant factors, now come the variable ones, mainly how you like to play it.
You could go for a gigantic and expensive block of vermin, some 12 or so ratogres (which costs about 480 points and is very succeptible to low leadership and shoting) or you could go combined arms and make say a 30 to 35 man block of storm vermin backed up by say a 2 man unit of Rat ogres, the ogres are not there to take enemy units head on, but will add some very decent combat resolution/anti armor through flank charging the unit already engaged with the vermin, and are cheap enough 80 points, that they can get killed with out ever hitting an enemy with out affecting your pressence on the board all that much.


Personally i play empire. I find that for the mid to lower end infantry (non elite humans) sizes of 35 man 7 wide work best.



Just in case you were actually asking this, you never glue the miniatures to the movement tray, you just sit them on top, thus changing the size of the unit its only about getting some extra models and some cardboard to make different trays.