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So, picking up some HWT for my new footguard army, the plan of battle is to sit down and unleash hell from the safety of an ADL. So question is simple:

Do I kit my HWT's out with:

Autocannons
Mortars
Lascannons
Heavy Bolters

Help much appreciated.

Magnetise!

Failing that: Lascannons for anyone with BS 4 - ccs, vets
Autocannons/heavy bolters for everyone else (but tbh I wouldn't bother with hws in regular squads).

Good, 'cos i don't put HWS in platoon, I keep 'em separate or bubble wrap 'em.

 Dannyrulx wrote:
So, picking up some HWT for my new footguard army, the plan of battle is to sit down and unleash hell from the safety of an ADL.

Line of Sight is measured from the models. Unconverted heavy weapon teams are (I think) very slightly lower than the Aegis Defense Line. This means that the guns sometimes won't be able to fire (unless they're mortars) if you're using Rules As Written. This can cause problems. See this page for more discussion on the subject.

Oh, you wanted actual tactical advice? Well... I've not got any experience with Imperial Guard in the last few editions, so I can't give any advice regarding them.

I've had the most luck with Autocannons. Lascannons are great, but tend to be targeted and removed quickly if in a HWS. Missiles are meh, heavy bolters are on (almost) every vehicle we have, and mortars are cool but have very little impact.

Sounds like autocannons then. But, I really like huge ROF...

I'd say autocannons as well, with maybe a couple lascannons. But if you really like something, go with it. The most important part is enjoying your army unless you're looking to be super competitive.

I understand the high rate of fire argument, but when you really look at the comparison I think you'll like Autocannons.

Heavy Bolters take 1 extra shot and give up 2 strength. Those 2 strength are the difference between popping transports/reliably putting wounds on MCs and not being able to double out T3. Oh and your range is a foor shorter. For the same price.

There's plenty of great units that come with secondary HBs all over the dex, but if you wanna stack up a ton of em behind an ADL, do you man! The things that HBs really threaten will be able to stay out of range, though.

Mallich wrote:

 Dannyrulx wrote:
So, picking up some HWT for my new footguard army, the plan of battle is to sit down and unleash hell from the safety of an ADL.

Line of Sight is measured from the models. Unconverted heavy weapon teams are (I think) very slightly lower than the Aegis Defense Line. This means that the guns sometimes won't be able to fire (unless they're mortars) if you're using Rules As Written. This can cause problems. See this page for more discussion on the subject.

Oh, you wanted actual tactical advice? Well... I've not got any experience with Imperial Guard in the last few editions, so I can't give any advice regarding them.

This^^^ if you put your guys behind an aegis line. Based on true line of sight from the models head. You actually give your opponent a 4+ cover because your models are crouching. So now because of bs3 you miss half your shots. Then because your opponent has a 4+ cover you miss half your hits from your opponents cover.

Bubble wrapping might be a solution but you're firing through friendlies giving a 5+ cover minimum.

If your guys are in the open it takes only 1 S6 shot to kill one model and then you take a ld 7 test. Possibly failing. Also the smallest amount of fire power will kill one of the models and that's all it takes to make your squad make a LD test.

There isn't really any good way to use them. Just spam mass auto cannons and lascannons and hope youre opponent doesn't kill them all lol.

A HWS with Mortars camping an objective is sometimes useful.
if you're deadset on running lots of HWTs Creed seems to be the best bet to get orders on your squads. Yarrick with his Warlord trait will help keep them around also. A Lord Commissar will make your HWTs within 6" pretty stubborn, A CCS with The Laurels of Command will make sure they don't run if you dont want them too. But in the end they are a glass hammer.

Well, I think I'll take some autocannons and make the spotter standing up (GS to the rescue!) One thing I have noticed is thay the set has loads of stuff for my terrain. Already put a spare lasgun (without any hands), a shovel, a spare helmet and the knife through the sandbags into good use making scenery.

 Dannyrulx wrote:
Well, I think I'll take some autocannons and make the spotter standing up (GS to the rescue!) One thing I have noticed is thay the set has loads of stuff for my terrain. Already put a spare lasgun (without any hands), a shovel, a spare helmet and the knife through the sandbags into good use making scenery.

Even if the guy is standing up he has to be right up against the wall to not grant your opponent a cover save. This is why. Place your model a couple inches from the line. Now place an enemy model somewhere around 24in of the line. No get down nice and low behind your model and try to look at eye level of that models head and tell me if you can see all of the enemy models whole body. To make things quick the answer is no you can't. If the terrain is the same level from both models and if your model isn't against the line there's a good chance you are giving your opponent a cover save.

It is better to spam them and not take a defense line. They are really only good in extremely heavy infantry based lists.


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Not trying to sound rude but heavy weapon teams really are over priced and the modeling idea for them was a little poor. Not to mention the weapons don't even fit over the defense line.

However if you' re dead set on using the Aegistry this: Place the HWT ont the lips of a crater that is surrounded by the Aegis. The GW ones are tall enough to give our crouching models LOS to the target. Also hills are your friends and learn to love multi storie ruins.

Put a rock on a base or something.

 koooaei wrote:
Put a rock on a base or something.

Or put a regular guardsman on a base on top of your HWT base, that way he'll be taller. You can even do a slot on the HWT base for the smaller one, this way you can switch around standing and crouching guards.

If your opponent is that nit-picky that he won't let you fire your HWT from behind an aegis, that might not be an opponent worth playing with. That sort of thing sets off my TFG alarm.

Its a bit anal but it is RAW. If they cant see over the aegis and most cant, then they cant shoot. I have no probs with pretending to fire over it but I've seen it enforced at tourneys too.

 Ratius wrote:
Its a bit anal but it is RAW. If they cant see over the aegis and most cant, then they cant shoot. I have no probs with pretending to fire over it but I've seen it enforced at tourneys too.

So grots will never be able to fire anything? That s about as asinine as it gets. I understand the idea behind it but this should be one of those common sense issues. Otherwise you would have to slice your aegis in half to make it work as it is intended for your army.

Also you can say your opponent is TFG for not letting a HWT fire over a line but the guys heads barely see over the line and the weapons barrel doesnt even go over the line. Sure if the weapons team is against the line I would allow someone to fire over but if a weapon team is somewhere more than 6" theres no way that weapon will have true line of sight to a target thats on the same level as it.


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I would say go with lascannons or possibly autocannons, however I disagree with the aegis line all together.

If I were to use HWTs I would put them in a bastion or a firestorm redoubt. With the amount of str 6/7 cover ignoring stuff going around, I wouldn't expect them to survive for long if they were able to be targeted, even with a 4+ cover save.

Just a note, currently LOS is checked from body of shooter to body of target. So if it sees the enemy with the top of the helmet, or left leg, it's ok.

Wings, tails, weapons, ornaments, whatevers are not counted, only bodies of units and hulls of vehicles.

I can't believe the rules lawyering of some of you people. If I had the barrel of my friggin heavy gun over the wall or aimed so it can be then I shouldn't be giving you a cover save. This is a fething game for Christ sake people, it's an abstraction. Think fething abstract.

I mean hell, the fact he's taking HWTs alone should tell you the guy isn't trying to WAAC netlist you. Give people some breathing room and the chill the feth out.

 ultimentra wrote:
I can't believe the rules lawyering of some of you people. If I had the barrel of my friggin heavy gun over the wall or aimed so it can be then I shouldn't be giving you a cover save. This is a fething game for Christ sake people, it's an abstraction. Think fething abstract.

I mean hell, the fact he's taking HWTs alone should tell you the guy isn't trying to WAAC netlist you. Give people some breathing room and the chill the feth out.

Thank you (but just wait until the admins see this)

On topic, I vote autocannons or mortars. Heavy bolters can be taken on nearly every vehicle and be more survivable. Mortars will almost never be shot at and they can hide out of los, but a wyvern is just stupid good for 5 more points than these guys. So yeah, probably just autocannons then lol

 ultimentra wrote:
I can't believe the rules lawyering of some of you people. If I had the barrel of my friggin heavy gun over the wall or aimed so it can be then I shouldn't be giving you a cover save. This is a fething game for Christ sake people, it's an abstraction. Think fething abstract.

I mean hell, the fact he's taking HWTs alone should tell you the guy isn't trying to WAAC netlist you. Give people some breathing room and the chill the feth out.

Unfortunately they are the rules of the game and the OP should be aware of them before he gets into a dedicated list and buys a bunch of heavy weapon teams. I mention this because I have 8 autocannon teams and 6 lascannon teams and I thought it could be a fun foot guard list but I shortly found later that my meta plays by this Los shenanigans. It annoyed the heck out of me because basically half my shots are misses. And then half are blocked due to cover. It annoyed me so much I don't even run a defense line if I run heavy weapon squads.

My reasoning for this is because the OP asked for ways to configure them and what some strategies were. So if his meta isn't sticklers then sure go all out. Like I mentioned autocannons and lascannons are my vote. Autocannons more for the bs3 guardsmen and lascannons more for the vets or ccs. Or depending on what your lists lacks the autocannons are pretty much the better choice as you can get anti tank else where In your list.

I was under the impression that if you were touching the line it didn't give cover to anyone while you shot over it.

I go Autocannons if the points are low, if my men will be mobile at some stage or I know what my opponent is using, but most of the time (if not all the time) I prefer lascannons... 10 points for that much POWER!, yes please... Also if your gaming group disallows firing over an aegis cause the model is short, that's absolutely stupid... LoS chould then be drawn from the head of the firing model, I'm sure they have ways of getting the barrel to a height they can see, perhaps the tripod is adjustable, it is the 41st Millenium and men and aliens fly spaceships and shoot laser cannons...

 tankboy145 wrote:
I mention this because I have 8 autocannon teams and 6 lascannon teams

The mistake there was gluing the teams together. If you would use magnets, you could have 14 teams with whatever weapon you need

So if the problem with ADL that the crouching guys can't see out, make some standing guys, who can surely will, than you aren't relying on your opponents mercy, and you don't need the rules - there is a big difference between RAW and compliance to rules.

Btw I think veterans and CCS can't field enough heavy weapons so you can use reliable amounts of lascannons out of them. Regular guardsman with prescience hits more reliably (75% vs 66%), and you can field more of them (for a single prescience target 3 for HWT and max. 5 for blob). Imo just one or two random lascannons won't cut it. Your ccs needs to be protected, or they can't give out orders, your vets are likely wield special weapons, so they can't sit around shooting lascannons, they need to be on the move. These two units are just not synergies well with lascannon.

To solve everything, make some platforms out of sprue or something. Put them behind the ADL, and put your HWT on it.

Or, get the Wall of Martyrs emplacement set instead. It's in the Stronghold Assault book, and is made as an ADL with HWT in mind. They get a bonus to overwatch when behind it.

As for what weapons to use, do you need more AT or AI? AT is Lascannon, AI is HB. Autocannon and Mortar are there too, and the AC wins most debates.

Mavnas wrote:
I was under the impression that if you were touching the line it didn't give cover to anyone while you shot over it.

Generally that's true because if you get down behind the line to check Los from your model your models head would be able to see clear over the line and can see the enemy model.


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Zsolt wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
I mention this because I have 8 autocannon teams and 6 lascannon teams

The mistake there was gluing the teams together. If you would use magnets, you could have 14 teams with whatever weapon you need

So if the problem with ADL that the crouching guys can't see out, make some standing guys, who can surely will, than you aren't relying on your opponents mercy, and you don't need the rules - there is a big difference between RAW and compliance to rules.

Btw I think veterans and CCS can't field enough heavy weapons so you can use reliable amounts of lascannons out of them. Regular guardsman with prescience hits more reliably (75% vs 66%), and you can field more of them (for a single prescience target 3 for HWT and max. 5 for blob). Imo just one or two random lascannons won't cut it. Your ccs needs to be protected, or they can't give out orders, your vets are likely wield special weapons, so they can't sit around shooting lascannons, they need to be on the move. These two units are just not synergies well with lascannon.

It wouldn't matter if I glued them or not. Take a heavy weapon team. Place it anywhere behind you line at least 3 inches back. Now take an enemy model. Just use another guardsmen. And place it on the opposite side of the line the same distance. And on the same level. Now get down on your heavy weapon team. And go ahead and do this with ur standing guys on the base too. Now get down and check your Los. There's agood chance you can't see the lower half of the enemy model. So unless your against the line there's a good chance you can't see over and if your using blobs your heavy weapon teams will never be against the line because EVERY guard player uses the squishy bodies to take the wounds for the heavy weapons teams. Just try it and you will see. U can even take a tape measure. Have one end start at ur guys head and in a straight line draw it to your opposite model. Now slowly lower the side that's with the opposing model. Showing that ur model is scanning that whole model. Once the tape measure hits the line. From that point down is how much of the enemy model is blocked by the line.

Like I said. This is how I got burned in my meta. I am only sharing what I know with the OP. He/she may have a pretty relaxed group but if you do end up having a stickler group this is possibly something you will run into.