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Hello all

My local gaming hub as been having argument. The rules just aren't clear enough so I've come to dakka and its endless wealth of knowledge for an answer.

Example - A Chaos lord with the mark of khorne and equipped with a BP and a PF is assaulting and makes it in. Normally a CL has 3 base attacks, but since he has the mark of khorne and is assaulting he gets +2 so he is up to 5.

Now does he still get the additional attack for having two close combat weapons or does the PF counter act that?

Power fist overrules, BRB and specialist weapons. I beleive though, he can have the +1A if he hits with the bolt pistol, but why would you.

Id say you dont get +1A using the bolt pistol either.

If you give the lord another specialist weapon you get the bonus tho.

Powerfist and Lightning Claw.
If you need the high strength and/or AP2 you go with the fist.
Up to MEQ are simply torn through using the claw.

Yup, gotta double up on Specialist Weapons in order to get the bonus.

 Homeskillet wrote:
Yup, gotta double up on Specialist Weapons in order to get the bonus.

Only if you are using the Specialist weapon to attack with.

"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons" (Special Rules chapter, Specialist Weapon section).

If you are not using the weapons bonuses you are not fighting with the weapon.

" +1 Two Weapons: Engaged models with two single-handed weapons (often a Melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand) get +1 Attack." (The Assault Phase chapter, Number of Attacks section).

The Power Fist is a single-handed weapon, so if you are using (Fighting with) the BP, you get the bonus attack.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Yup, gotta double up on Specialist Weapons in order to get the bonus.

Only if you are using the Specialist weapon to attack with.

"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons" (Special Rules chapter, Specialist Weapon section).

If you are not using the weapons bonuses you are not fighting with the weapon.

" +1 Two Weapons: Engaged models with two single-handed weapons (often a Melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand) get +1 Attack." (The Assault Phase chapter, Number of Attacks section).

The Power Fist is a single-handed weapon, so if you are using (Fighting with) the BP, you get the bonus attack.

Why? The Specialist weapon overrules the Attack bonus rule regardless of which weapon he is swinging with.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Why? The Specialist weapon overrules the Attack bonus rule regardless of which weapon he is swinging with.

No. From the USR:

A model fighting with this weapon

e.g., if you choose to fight with the PF, you don't get the +1, but if you chose to fight with the BP, you do get the +1 (from having a BP and a CCW).

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Why? The Specialist weapon overrules the Attack bonus rule regardless of which weapon he is swinging with.

No. From the USR:

A model fighting with this weapon

e.g., if you choose to fight with the PF, you don't get the +1, but if you chose to fight with the BP, you do get the +1 (from having a BP and a CCW).

I can see that, but it feels wrong. "Fighting with" is frustrating in this sense, because it seems like you shouldn't get the +1 no matter what you are actually swinging with. Way to go, GW

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Why? The Specialist weapon overrules the Attack bonus rule regardless of which weapon he is swinging with.

No. From the USR:

A model fighting with this weapon

e.g., if you choose to fight with the PF, you don't get the +1, but if you chose to fight with the BP, you do get the +1 (from having a BP and a CCW).

Please define "fighting with" using the rules.

Both interpretations are correct, as "fighting with" could mean either attacking with that weapon, or having that weapon "equipped" even if not actively attacking with it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Why? The Specialist weapon overrules the Attack bonus rule regardless of which weapon he is swinging with.

No. From the USR:

A model fighting with this weapon

e.g., if you choose to fight with the PF, you don't get the +1, but if you chose to fight with the BP, you do get the +1 (from having a BP and a CCW).

Please define "fighting with" using the rules.

Both interpretations are correct, as "fighting with" could mean either attacking with that weapon, or having that weapon "equipped" even if not actively attacking with it.

This is my concern. I would assume "fighting with" as what weapon you are making attacks with, but assume =/= RAW

Would using the Power Fist to gain an extra Attack not also be considered "fighting with" it?

 grendel083 wrote:
Would using the Power Fist to gain an extra Attack not also be considered "fighting with" it?

You wouldn't be using the fist to "gain" an extra attack, you would just be fighting with it. And, since it has the Specialist Weapon USR, you would be denied the bonus attack that you would normally get for also having a Bolt Pistol in your wargear list. That much is obvious.

The Chaos Lord in the OP's example has three weapons: a BP, a CCW, and a PF in his wagear list. My interpretation is that he gets his +1 attack bonus if he decides to "fight with" his Bolt Pistol - he gains that extra attack from having an extra non-specialist CCW. That he happens to also have a PF in his wargear list does not affect that.

Now, if we were talking about a SM Captain who has a BP and a PF in his wargear list (no extra CCW), then he could not get the +1 attack even if he used his BP, since he doesn't have an extra non-specialist melee weapon.