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Hey guys. I'm currently one win and one draw with this list. The draw was a close 13-13 game agaisnt a triple anni barge necron list. My list takes the real space raiders formation as primary, and the coven formation that consists of 3 wrack units , 3 raiders, haemunculus. The formation grants the haemy a 12" power from pain bubble. The void raven I'm trying out. The goal is to play. 10 games with this list. Here's the list:

HQ:

Urien rakarth
Haemunculus

Troops:

5 warriors; venom dual cannons
5 warriors; venom dual cannons

Elites:
10 wracks, 2 liquifiers; raider
10 wracks, 2 liquifiers; raider
10 wracks, 2 liquifiers; raider
4 grotesques, liquifier; raider (with haemy and Urien)

Fast attack:

Razorwing jetfighter, 2 dark lance
Razorwing jetfighter, 2 dark lance
5 scourge, 4 haywire blaster
5 scourge, 4 haywire blaster
Venom, dual cannon
Venom, dual cannon

Heavy support:

Void raven, 4 shatter missles, 2 void lance, void mine

How are you taking 4 Elite Choices? I assume you are taking the Codex Dark Eldar Detachment the 6 FA list? If you are running this with Covens detachment or a CAD and detachment. Looks like a decent list, wracks stay alive longer than kabilites. Good luck man.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
How are you taking 4 Elite Choices? I assume you are taking the Codex Dark Eldar Detachment the 6 FA list? If you are running this with Covens detachment or a CAD and detachment. Looks like a decent list, wracks stay alive longer than kabilites. Good luck man.

The Formation consists of three units of Wracks (with Raiders) and a Haemonuclus - they don't take up the Elite slots in the Realspace Raiders Detachment.

@OP looks nice. I'm not sure if two IC can go in the same unit though.

Might be worthwhile getting Acothyst upgrades on all the Wracks so that you get a third Liquifier for each unit (Acothyst wielding third one)

I also think the Voidraven is better off not having missiles, save those for the Razerwing which get them standard.

No talos or chronos?

Shingen wrote:
No talos or chronos?

I used them last edition when they were cheaper. I find the razorwing and scourges better anti tank(which I need and the razorwing performs both anti tank and anti vehicle very well) and the xhronos is just too slow(they're both too slow) for my list. For about the same price as a talos I get a razorwing. Great missles for anti infantry and lances for eloping knock some final hull points off tanks. If the engines were faster, if definitely play them. I like the idea of the chronos close to my wracks and grots giving 4+ fnp, but they just zoom up too quickly in raiders.

If you find the Cronos/Talos too slow why no deliver by WWP? They were cheaper but didn't have a 4+ FnP.

Grotesques>>>>>> Wracks. The Grotesquerie would be a far better formation to use. Not just because the Grotesques are better than Wracks but the benefit applies to all of them where you're not even using the benefit of the formation by not attaching the Haemmie to a Wrack unit and putting him in the same unit as Urien so gaining no benefit for the improvement to master of pain.

Why the 2 Empty Venoms? As you state you need more AT I would fill up on Scourges.

I would pay for Night Shields before missiles on the Voidraven.

The coven list does work to try bring the Pain Engines up with the rest of the army. One formation of 5 talosi (!) where they all gain scout and extra vps for kills in combat, this is amazing. 6' pre-game doesn't sound like much, but it means on you start 18'' on the board, move 6'' and run 3'' and your turn 1 you are 27-28'' from your edge of the board and turn 2 you will be close enough to assault.

Another formation is a Talos + a Chronus + a Haemonculi in a single unit. Yes, the Haemonculi can buy a Webway portal, so turn 2 you have 9 Majority T 7 wounds where ever you want, most with a 3+ sv and 4+ FnP. That's one hell of a distraction carnifex. In fact, all of the formations are good in the coven supplement, but you must agree the real winners are the Pain Engine. Yeah they got more expensive, but gained FNP base and the Coven ones get IWND quite soon in. T7 3+ /4+FNP is very good vs Wave Serpents, they simply can't touch it.

Just some options to consider.

While I do appreciate the replies, I guess I forgot to list what I've got. I wanna try a fluffy coven list so I guess it could help telling you guys what I got. Also, it's probably worth noting I like the wracks with liquifiers as they don't get tar pitted vs heavy infantry lists. Here's what I got for models:

Urien
Haemy
50 kabalites
30 wracks
4 grotesques
10 wyches
10 scourges
Archon
2 talos
3 Ravager
4 raiders
6 reavers
2 razorwing jets
6 razorwing flocks
10 Khmera
5 beast masters
6 venoms
Void raven bomber


I mostly play at a club and not too many tourneys. Also I won't be spending too much right now on stuff because I have a newborn. One thing I could do is only take 1 liquifier in the wrack units and add night shields to the raiders... Alex, you seem to know your stuff, whatcha think. Also, one thing to note is the haemy confers master of pain 12" to units from the coven formation.

Also, one thing to note is the haemy confers master of pain 12" to units from the coven formation.

As does Urien Rakarth and your plan is to put them both in the same unit making 1 of them entirely redundant. Particularly as Urien is not limited to buffing a specific formation but any DE units in your army.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Also, one thing to note is the haemy confers master of pain 12" to units from the coven formation.

As does Urien Rakarth and your plan is to put them both in the same unit making 1 of them entirely redundant. Particularly as Urien is not limited to buffing a specific formation but any DE units in your army.

I suppose it would make sense to put the haemy in a unit of 9 wracks.

I'd agree with putting the Haem with the Wracks, it they will make a nasty spear head unit. As for using just the models you own, i think you are using one of the best units you possibly could while using such a large formation.

But there are a few options i could suggest that might help out, for example drop the missiles on the Void Raven. 200pts is just far to expensive to throw on av AV 10 3 HP flyer, i simply cannot justify it while Interceptor is still a thing. I'd also suggest dropping the empty Venoms, it's quite obvious your list is going to do most of it's damage in close assault, and the long ranged power of the venoms is out shined by the fact you don't need them to kill MC's (Poison EVERYWHERE!) and most of your damage will be done in close assault anyway. They also don't make use of the better Power From Pain you are paying so much for, so a better unit I'd suggest is a unit of 6 Reavers.

By dropping the missiles and the Venoms you get yourself 170pts, 6 Reavers with 2 Caltrops is 126pts, which leaves you enough pts (well, actually you spend 171pts, is your list exactly 2K?) to throw Night Shields on your 3 Raiders. Remember, even if your Raider Jinks, the passengers are uneffected, meaning you can and should do Jinking Flyby Liquifiers!

The Reavers are great, 3+ Jink Save + 5+ FNP makes them obnoxiously hard to kill, and they hit like a brick with 2D6 Str 6 Rending + 4 Str 4 Rending HOW attacks in addition to their normal PFP and CD enchanced attacks. They are also fast and the same speed as your Raiders, if you boost all 4 Raiders up, 3 with a 3+ Jink save the 4th with Grots in, as well as the Reavers, who will he shoot at? Who cares! The rest will make it.

Just a cool option i saw and thought you might like.

Alex appreciate your well thought out response! I like the idea of the reavers, but do you think a,) six is enough to make a dent? And b.) 2 venoms is enough in my list?

Yeah, 6 is enough. 3 is to few and 9 is to many, but 6 with Caltrops is the perfect amount. Would you like 2D6 Str 6 Rending Auto Hits going onto you every time this unit charged? Of course not, so you shoot it. But a 3+ cover save and 5+ FNP is almost a 2+ save, so they won't be as easy as you'd think. And if they throw shots into Reavers, what shots are going into the Grots? Or the Wracks? Dropping the Venoms also gets you Night Shields on your Raiders, 3+ jink saves are quite simply obnoxious for all armies but Tau and Eldar.

As for the loss of the Venoms, what did they grant you? 24 shots (so 8 wounds avg) at range. Which isn't bad, but doesn't help enough to win games. With the list you are taking, it's win big or go home. Venoms simply don't do that, they don't grant target saturation and they don't work with the PFP your army is throwing out like a peedo with an ice cream truck. Reavers fill these rolls, you have the models, are you just KNOW you want to throw that many HOW hits on a unit you charged

Having another look at your list, I'd recommend another Haemonculus to up your HQ count to three.

Didn't catch it before, but the Realspace Raiders detachment needs one HQ minimum, Coven requires two minimum

EDIT: Unless you're using the formation

 Frozocrone wrote:
Having another look at your list, I'd recommend another Haemonculus to up your HQ count to three.

Didn't catch it before, but the Realspace Raiders detachment needs one HQ minimum, Coven requires two minimum

EDIT: Unless you're using the formation

I'm using the formation.