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Yeah yeah, I know I'm setting myself up for a huge flame fest but oh well, who cares. The flamers and trollers will invent reasons or follow me wherever I post regardless so why not give them what they want. lol

Remember, this is just conjecture and talk with no "right' or "wrong" or me even putting my brand on anything as being a set in stone belief. Just random musings.

Lord of war this, lord of war that. People playing ascendant ctan and shadowswords in 1,000 point lists. Not playing in tourneys cause the rich guywith the reaver titan always wins by default, my fancy character I like is a lord of war whats up with that?.......

I see merit in some of these. Not that I agree 00% but I can see how they CAN make the difference and be hard to play against without tailoring.

Random thought. What if the lords of war were classified by power and points? Some are obviously more powerful than others and this is reflected in the points you pay for them. What if instead of a lord of war being an open empty slot, it was an empty slot with a points limit based on how large the game was? What would you think of this? If ya like the idea, what points per LOW/game size would you be comfortable with? If ya dont like the idea, thats cool. not sure what I would think of it myself. Just say why instead of just dismissing it out of hand because of who the OP was.

Some people have apparently just started using the LoW characters as regular ol' HQ's. It doesn't fly with sticklers of the rules like me (mostly), but I understand the frustration and might make the exception occasionally. I've liked the codices they've been doing recently except that; it's a terrible way to get people to use the LoW slot.

Considering you can go unbound, I'd say any sort of points level where it can fit.

I would like my opponent to tell me they are using a LoW though so I can tweak my list to have a chance against it, it becomes a very one-sided game and not very fun when you can't do anything to a model that is destroying your units left right and centre (unless the person enjoys kerb-stomping with stuff like the Transcendent C'Tan, then I would probably have that one game and never play them again, they sound like a TFG, especially if they sulk if the LoW dies).

My thoughts anyway.

I do like your idea, I am of the opinion LoW should be strictly for Apocalypse so 2k and above minimum, I find some of the LoW are insanely difficult to remove, especially when they themselves have the tools to destroy whatever is going to hurt them (for example, that Quad gun against my Harridan? Destroy that and the Flyer that would fire at full BS).

One exception as pointed out though...those LoW that could be easily classed as HQ's (Logan and co). Not sure what GW had in mind when making them LoW..

IIRC there's a similar rule in 30k where Lords of War can't be more than 25% of your total points. It'd certainly serve to curtail the extreme cases, while still allowing Characters that have been moved to LoW.

Some sort of level system would be good,

Example

Level 1, one vehicle up to 300 points (before upgrades), can be used in games of 1000 points minimum. This would be your Malcadors, Macharius', Knights,etc

Level 2, one vehicle up to 750pts before upgrades, can be used in games of 2000pts minumim. Here, we have your Baneblades, Stompas, Thunderhawks and Warhounds.

Level 3, one vehicle above 750pts before upgrades, can be used in games of 3000pts minumum. This is where your Reavers, Phantoms, Daemon Lords start to come in.

Just a rough idea but you can see what I'm getting at.

Not playing in tourneys cause the rich guywith the reaver titan always wins by default, my fancy character I like is a lord of war whats up with that?.......

Where are you stopping?

So guy who brings 6 unpainted Cheese Serpents and two half assembled Wraith Knights are fine?
Wraith Knights and Riptides are fine but Imperial Knights and Stompas are not?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
IIRC there's a similar rule in 30k where Lords of War can't be more than 25% of your total points. It'd certainly serve to curtail the extreme cases, while still allowing Characters that have been moved to LoW.

^This. 25-30% of your points, max, are allowed to be spent in the LoW slot. Allows the taking of characters too.
Knights are not a LoW but can be an army in their own right so don't count towards this 25-30%.

Mr Morden, You must be posting in the wrong thread. We are talking about Lords of War here.
Although, I have not had problems with the wraithknights or riptides and so forth. I'm sure there are threads here where you can get tips on playing them.

I was unsure of imperial knights as they are not classified as LOW. I have two of these painted up myself with a 3rd assembled. Not to mention they are a codex army in their own right... or a formation.Was unsure of them.

The characters, yes. I agree. WTH WERE they thinking. I was thinking 2k+ for lords of war in general but figured I'd catch too much flack so put more thought into it and considered the levels. Had also considered the 25% idea and figured people would scream about having to do extra math lol.

I can see LoW Superheavies and Gargantuan Creatures getting separated from LoW Characters in the future, perhaps by calling the Characters "Heroes" rather than Lords of War, or by calling the SHs and GCs "Engines of War", and splitting the LoW slot into "Heroes" and "Enignes". We'll see when 8th comes out next year.

SJ

 EVIL INC wrote:
Mr Morden, You must be posting in the wrong thread. We are talking about Lords of War here.
Although, I have not had problems with the wraithknights or riptides and so forth. I'm sure there are threads here where you can get tips on playing them.

I was unsure of imperial knights as they are not classified as LOW. I have two of these painted up myself with a 3rd assembled. Not to mention they are a codex army in their own right... or a formation.Was unsure of them.

The characters, yes. I agree. WTH WERE they thinking. I was thinking 2k+ for lords of war in general but figured I'd catch too much flack so put more thought into it and considered the levels. Had also considered the 25% idea and figured people would scream about having to do extra math lol.

Ha. If somebody can't halve and halve again (/4), then me and my fellow colleagues (maths teachers) are doing something seriously wrong!

I meant from pure laziness. lol

I have for a while said I think 40k should have a tiered system of army selection systems (if not entirely different rule sets). They wouldn't even have to be hard limits, you could just define different limitations for different games and then write "discuss with your opponent which army selection method to use. We suggest this army selection method is appropriate for games of 1000pts or less, that army selection method is appropriate for games of 1000-3000pts, that army selection method is appropriate for games of 3000+pts, though you can decide what works best for you".

 EVIL INC wrote:
Mr Morden, You must be posting in the wrong thread. We are talking about Lords of War here.
Although, I have not had problems with the wraithknights or riptides and so forth. I'm sure there are threads here where you can get tips on playing them.

I was unsure of imperial knights as they are not classified as LOW. I have two of these painted up myself with a 3rd assembled. Not to mention they are a codex army in their own right... or a formation.Was unsure of them.

The characters, yes. I agree. WTH WERE they thinking. I was thinking 2k+ for lords of war in general but figured I'd catch too much flack so put more thought into it and considered the levels. Had also considered the 25% idea and figured people would scream about having to do extra math lol.

The problem for me is that the issue with balance is mainly with specfic units - you really have to address all of them or the remaining unbalcned ones just get worse. Saying one specific type of unit is not ok but other widely considered OP units are ok for me does not work?

Knights are a LOW choice ofr Imperial Armies and Stomaps for Orks - but Wraith Knights, Riptides are just normal units - it just going to seem a little odd that you can field one type but the not the other.

Knights are their own Codex - so can you use them (and there are about 6 different Knights now) even if your Imperial Opponent can't? Difficult.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I have for a while said I think 40k should have a tiered system of army selection systems (if not entirely different rule sets). They wouldn't even have to be hard limits, you could just define different limitations for different games and then write "discuss with your opponent which army selection method to use. We suggest this army selection method is appropriate for games of 1000pts or less, that army selection method is appropriate for games of 1000-3000pts, that army selection method is appropriate for games of 3000+pts, though you can decide what works best for you".

Yeh - 1000k games could work better if limited to 2HS, 2FA and 2 Elites per CAD.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
IIRC there's a similar rule in 30k where Lords of War can't be more than 25% of your total points. It'd certainly serve to curtail the extreme cases, while still allowing Characters that have been moved to LoW.

If this rule was introduced into 40k it would stop baneblades popping up in 1500pt games and would solve a lot of the moaning I think about LoW being taken.

Saying that though my 200pt honour guard left a Hellhammer with only 3 HP after 1 round of shooting so they aren't unstoppable.