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Hi guys,

Since last edition I have been trying to figure out a way to make my poor old chaos space marines work in a competitive environment. Alas, it has not gone so well and they have been shelved a lot more than I would like! So heres my attempt at making something a little different to my usual play style, as I am usually very much against the "eggs in one basket" approach to list building.

Chaos Space Marine Detachment

HQ - Be'lakor - 350

HQ - Daemon Prince, Wings, Power Armour, Nurgle, Black Mace - 265

Troops - 10 cultists - 50

Troops - 10 cultists - 50

Crimson Slaughter Detachment

HQ - Chaos Lord, Powerfist, Lightning Claw, Mark of Tzeench, Disk, Daemonheart, Sigil, Blight Grenades - 210

HQ - Chaos Sorcerer, Mastery Level 3, Balestar of Mannon, Bike, Sigil - 180

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Plasmagun - 125

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Meltagun - 120

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Flamer - 115

Fast Attack - Bikes x6, Nurgle, meltagun x2 - 212

Fast Attack - Baledrake - 170

Total - 1847

So my general idea is during objective deployment try to force objectives close to either deployment zone. I will deploy weighted towards one flank which I will try and take first. Lord and Sorcerer go with the bikers, grouped near Be'lakkor and maybe 1 or 2 rhino squads depending on where the objectives are. Try to get Invisibility off on the bikers, and shrouding with be'lakkor, and keep within the 6inch bubble. Divination buff away with whatever I get with the sorcerer. I will more times than not send up 1 or 2 rhinos flat out first turn and pop smoke and stay in the shrouding bubble. 1 or 2 rhinos stays back, and cultist squads stay in reserves for late game backfield objective mopping. The Nurgle prince will be independent and go for targets he can take on his own without the support of the others.

I hope to get up in their faces as soon as possible. I will want to keep the sorcerer with the bikes more times than not, but the Chaos lord with a 2+,3++ IWND and a ship load of attacks can also break off and go and do his own thing when up in the opponents deployment zone. I also expect this guy to cause some unexpected headaches - people are used to Chaos Lords being :cusss! Baledrake mops up the units on the far side of the board.

With 4 different "high priority" targets on the board I am hoping that its going to give my opponent a few target priority issues (2x Prince, Bikestar, Baledrake) particularly if all shooting is hitting them on 6's first turn.

I will concentrate on 1 flank with the speed of my army then move across to the other side of the board.

The list has a couple of limitations, it is venerable to alpha strike armies, flying circus and those with strong psychic defence (Seerstar lists for example) and it is limited in the number of troops on the board. I am also concerned with the amount of points sunk in to the bike squad as a whole. Will it be able to kill 600 points worth?

Have you got any thoughts or feedback, on the list, playstyle or how to overcome the limitations? Any advice is welcome, thanks biggrin.png

: Quite a lot of stuff going on, which is good. Not sure bikes are really good enough for invisibility, their damage output it weak and they are pretty resilient anyway. Belakors probably better cloaking himself at that point.

Not sure whats going on with the tzeentch lord. He can't take blight grenades for a start. Where is he going? I know he can on paper go it alone, but its very risky.

What is the balestar really for? You dont have much shooting. And presience being warp charge 2 is totally not worth it.
I quite like santic and a spell familiar on a bike sorceror. Hammerhand is great. Biomancy is also good.

griplock wrote:
Hi guys,

Since last edition I have been trying to figure out a way to make my poor old chaos space marines work in a competitive environment. Alas, it has not gone so well and they have been shelved a lot more than I would like! So heres my attempt at making something a little different to my usual play style, as I am usually very much against the "eggs in one basket" approach to list building.

Chaos Space Marine Detachment

HQ - Be'lakor - 350

HQ - Daemon Prince, Wings, Power Armour, Nurgle, Black Mace - 265

Troops - 10 cultists - 50

Troops - 10 cultists - 50

Crimson Slaughter Detachment

HQ - Chaos Lord, Powerfist, Lightning Claw, Mark of Tzeench, Disk, Daemonheart, Sigil, Blight Grenades - 210

HQ - Chaos Sorcerer, Mastery Level 3, Balestar of Mannon, Bike, Sigil - 180

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Plasmagun - 125

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Meltagun - 120

Troops - Chaos Space Marine x5, Rhino, Flamer - 115

Fast Attack - Bikes x6, Nurgle, meltagun x2 - 212

Fast Attack - Baledrake - 170

Total - 1847

So my general idea is during objective deployment try to force objectives close to either deployment zone. I will deploy weighted towards one flank which I will try and take first. Lord and Sorcerer go with the bikers, grouped near Be'lakkor and maybe 1 or 2 rhino squads depending on where the objectives are. Try to get Invisibility off on the bikers, and shrouding with be'lakkor, and keep within the 6inch bubble. Divination buff away with whatever I get with the sorcerer. I will more times than not send up 1 or 2 rhinos flat out first turn and pop smoke and stay in the shrouding bubble. 1 or 2 rhinos stays back, and cultist squads stay in reserves for late game backfield objective mopping. The Nurgle prince will be independent and go for targets he can take on his own without the support of the others.

I hope to get up in their faces as soon as possible. I will want to keep the sorcerer with the bikes more times than not, but the Chaos lord with a 2+,3++ IWND and a ship load of attacks can also break off and go and do his own thing when up in the opponents deployment zone. I also expect this guy to cause some unexpected headaches - people are used to Chaos Lords being :cusss! Baledrake mops up the units on the far side of the board.

With 4 different "high priority" targets on the board I am hoping that its going to give my opponent a few target priority issues (2x Prince, Bikestar, Baledrake) particularly if all shooting is hitting them on 6's first turn.

I will concentrate on 1 flank with the speed of my army then move across to the other side of the board.

The list has a couple of limitations, it is venerable to alpha strike armies, flying circus and those with strong psychic defence (Seerstar lists for example) and it is limited in the number of troops on the board. I am also concerned with the amount of points sunk in to the bike squad as a whole. Will it be able to kill 600 points worth?

Have you got any thoughts or feedback, on the list, playstyle or how to overcome the limitations? Any advice is welcome, thanks biggrin.png

The Tzeentch lord cannot join Nurgle bikers. I have used the Nurgle lord on a bike he is a beast I equip mine PF and LC. Remember drake cannot start on the board and I would consider the hades on him as honestly you do not have a lot of anti tank/transport.

Have you considered oblits and putting the bike sorc with them? Or you could deepstrike them in to deal with targets of opportunity. Then you are getting some use from Prescience. There is very little that is going to benefit from twin linked shooting wise in your force. I assume you are thinking the reroll to hit in CC with the bikers. I would get some melta bombs as well. MC will tie you up as will dreadnaughts.

Have you consider daemon allies for your Crimson slaughter detachment? You could still take Belakor and get a ML3 LOC for the cost of the prince and take two units of nurglings for 90 points. You could invest in summoning for him and you also get prescience on the LOC as well. AV13 is going to be a bear for you as you have 3 MG and two FMC. I assume the Nurlge DP will be gliding to get 2+ jink as he has no shooting attack so you can get him into combat as soon as possible without have to switch modes?

Thanks for your feedback guys. You are right, I had a brain fart - originally he was a Nurgle lord when I was writing the list. @Captin bob I think you are probally right - Divination isnt really worth it in hindsight. I can save the points and roll on Byomancy, and give him the familiar. Also gives him the potential to leave the squad for a CC target depending on the spells I roll.

@NightWrench I originally had oblits in the list. I took them out to make room for some other elements but I do feel like the list is lacking some first turn punch. Melta bombs or a fist on the champ? I think if the lord and sorc will leave the squad then it needs to have some punch of its own to deal with other threats.

Unfortunatly I dont have the models for the daemon allys, but I might proxy and give it a go. I have only ever played against a Daemon player once - there is noone in my meta that uses them so I am pretty cluless on how they work! I was arming the prince to get the 2+ cover, I am tempted to find the points to give him 1 roll on Byomancy as well.

I think with the lord being Nurgle, I may as well go with plague marines too - I will write a post later with the updated list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Update - From the feedback, I have made 2 updated lists -

+ HQ + (680pts)

* Be'lakor, The Dark Master (350pts)


* Daemon Prince (330pts)
2x Mastery Level (become Psyker) , Nurgle , Power Armour, Spell familiar , The Black Mace , Wings


+ Troops + (50pts)

* Chaos Cultists (50pts)



+ Fast Attack + (263pts)

* Chaos Bikers (263pts)
7x Chaos Biker , Mark of Nurgle , 2x Meltagun
* Chaos Biker Champion
Power Fist


Chaos Space Marines: Supplement - Crimson Slaughter (2014) v5 (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (195pts)

* Chaos Lord (195pts)
Bike, Daemonheart , Mark of Nurgle, Sigil of corruption
* Power Armour
2x Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claws , Power Fist


+ Troops + (413pts)

* Plague Marines (Troops) (209pts)
Plague Champion, 5x Plague Marine 2x Plasma Gun
* Chaos Rhino



* Plague Marines (Troops) (204pts)
Meltagun , Plague Champion, 5x Plague Marine , Plasma Gun
* Chaos Rhino


+ Fast Attack + (170pts)

* Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer


+ Heavy Support + (76pts)

* Obliterators (76pts) Mark of Nurgle,

List 2 -

+ HQ + (615pts)

* Be'lakor, The Dark Master (350pts)


* Daemon Prince (265pts)
Nurgle , Power Armour , The Black Mace , Wings


+ Troops + (100pts)

* Chaos Cultists (50pts)


* Chaos Cultists (50pts)


+ Fast Attack + (237pts)

* Chaos Bikers (237pts)
6x Chaos Biker , Mark of Nurgle , 2x Meltagun
* Chaos Biker Champion

Power Fist

+ HQ + (365pts)

* Chaos Lord (195pts)
Bike , Daemonheart Mark of Nurgle , Sigil of corruption
* Power Armour
2x Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claws , Power Fist

* Sorcerer (170pts)

Additional Mastery Level , Bike , Sigil of corruption , Spell familiar
* Power Armour
Power Fist


+ Troops + (360pts)

* Plague Marines (Troops) (175pts)

2x Meltagun , Plague Champion , 4x Plague Marine
* Chaos Rhino (35pts)

* Plague Marines (Troops) (185pts)
Plague Champion, 4x Plague Marine , 2x Plasma Gun
* Chaos Rhino



+ Fast Attack + (170pts)

* Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer


So just some tweaks with both list. The main difference is one including the sorcerer, the other has a couple of extra bodies and an obliterator to at least give a tad of shooting. Any thoughts? Thanks

I would take Be'lakor and the Nurgle Prince from the Chaos Daemons codex, and replace the cultists with nurglings. The princes desperately need those rewards and every psychic buff you can get to make them worth their points. Going with Chaos Daemons means you can get 2 greater rewards (essential for survivability. Good ones include +1W and IWND, 4+ FNP, Reroll invuln saves) 1 of which can traded for a fleshbane, instant death weapon. The Prince is also not required to lose a power to the crappy nurgle table in the CSM book, thus increasing his chances for iron arm or endurance.

I like the first list better, but here's what I would change.

Turn the Lord into a Sorceror with ML3 and spell familiar for more warp charges. Either stick with MoN or consider going unmarked so that he doesn't have to waste a roll on the Nurgle table. These guys in the daemonheart armor are great candidates for Summoners as they only suffer perils on double 6's and can re roll psychic tests. Keep him as a beatstick though, as you need multiple fast threats.

Either take cheap 5 man melta squads of CSM in Rhinos or barebones cultists. CSM mix it up a little bit and have more board presence whereas cultists will allow you to save points for daemon troops.

SImply move Be'lakor to the CSM detachment, allowing you to take an allied daemon attachment.

Take kitted out Nurgle prince from the Chaos Daemons book. ~350 points when totally kitted out. Depending on your opponent/mission either roll on Biomancy or Daemonology.

For troops, take either nurglings for dirt cheap objective squatters or units of 11 pink horrors as warp charge batteries.

Depending upon how many points you saved and your willingness to nix the heldrake, you might even be able to squeeze in a Khorne Herald and some hounds for a 4th super speedy assault threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this:

CSM (Crimson Slaughter, CAD)

Be'lakor: 350

Sorceror: 210
ML3, Daemonheart, Sigil, Bike, Blight Grenades, Familiar

CSM: 125
Melta, Champ w/ Melta bombs, Rhino

CSM: 125
Melta, Champ w/ Melta bombs, Rhino

Bikers: 227
6x bikes, 2 melta Champ w/Power Weapon, melta bombs, MoN

Chaos Daemons (CAD)

Prince: 345
Nurgle, Wings, Armor, ML3, 2x Greaters, 1x Lesser

Khorne Herald: 135
Juggernaut, Lesser Reward (axe of Khorne), Locus of Wrath (re roll 1st round of combat)

Nurglings: 45

Nurglings: 45

15x Flesh hounds: 240

So that's 2 big, nasty daemons, a bikestar, and scouting hounds and Khorne Herald all rushing at your opponent from turn 1. Better early pressure than relying on the Heldrake to come in.

Invis the hounds turn 1 and they'll be damn near impossible to remove. They can also provide a screen for the bikes who can make use of shrouding for a 3+ cover save (or 2+ with jink). Augment this with the sorceror summoning daemonettes or more hounds, as well as Be'Lakor and a Nurgle Prince and you have a pretty decent multiple threat overload in your opponents face from the start.