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was re building my list and thought about how I would handle heavy support.

How to equip/ kit out Obliterators? If I don't spam every slot with 3 of them am I loosing out on firepower? I am a fan of them because of the 2W and 2+/ 5++, but 140 points is a lot to pay for 2 lascannon shots a turn. What about unit composition? What is the best number of models per unit and how many units is appropriate in an 1850 point game?

Havocs are the other infantry heavy-hitter, with only a little 3+ body between your 20 point lascannon and your opponent's rhino/ land raider/ flyer

Forge/ mauler fiends are cool, but what role do they fill exactly? Do I just deploy as far up the board as I can and point them at/ charge MC/ vehicles? Infantry? Cool models but i don't know.

The defiler thingy is just weird looking and I don't know anything about it.

Predator/ vindicators are cool looking tanks with big guns, but I enjoy infantry more and tend to try not to field vehicles because they always look poopy when I paint them.

Thoughts? In a mostly assault based army, how should I configure my heavy support to work well as backfield support?

I'm building some CSM at the minute, haven't played them yet, but I'm more motivated by painting/modelling so I am very reluctant to spam too many units as it's boring to paint.

Consequently, I have some Oblits, and plan to add some Havocs and a Fiend.

Now, specifically WRT Havocs, I agree they are a bit too squishy, so my solution is an AV14, 55pt Bunker for them to live in. I may sometimes even splash out on a Void Shield for same, just in case I want the extra protection.

Havocs are more worth it at lower point games, but if I can afford to take something more expensive than I usually do.

Obliterators are a very solid choice because they bring more than just lascannons to the fight. Though if you do take them I would say mark of nurgle is one of the best things you could take for them. Multiple units of 2 is a pretty popular tactic.

Forgefiends are great for taking out light and mid vehicles, including flyers since they have so many shots with their autocannons. When decked out with the plasma cannons they are great for taking out mid/heavy infantry. I generally use them to set up a solid firebase and just shoot away.

Maulerfiends are excellent for rushing up the table with other fast assault unit and cracking open buildings and transports.

Defilers carry a battle cannon. Point at enemy infantry and make them disappear. Move them up the board while firing the whole time. Once you get close enough assault your opponent and tear into them with your power claws.

As I almost never use vindicators and predators I'll leave those to someone more experienced than I.

10 havocs in a rhino with combi-plasma and 4 plasma is a nice set up if it advances with other units. Or if they gain infiltrate from Huron. Mark of nurgle starts to take their price above LR points but could be worth it depending on what you are facing and what else is in your list.


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10 havocs in a rhino with combi-plasma and 4 plasma is a nice set up if it advances with other units. Or if they gain infiltrate from Huron. Mark of nurgle starts to take their price above LR points but could be worth it depending on what you are facing and what else is in your list.

When I run an assault heavy army, I fill my heavy slots with 3 maulerfiends and I love them. Even when you aren't charging them into vehicles and monstrous creatures, they're great at getting to and holding down infantry units (especially with lasher tendrils) for other units to get into the combat and support. Few infantry units can hurt them and they fill the vital role of taking out mindshacklescarabs for me.

Oblits are the best. Run wth MoN. I run 6 of them. 3 pairs of 2. They are pretty sturdy. Good amount of fire power at medium range. I run 9 in friendly games and make plasma barrage to match my friends pask nonsense.

Lascannon preds can be nice long range support but generally I think they do too little. They are prety okay for their price tag but lascannons just arent that great against vehicles anymore.

Fiends -> these are both okay options as well. Take them in pairs like with any other scary looking unit doing damage.

Havocs-> generally not worth it imo

Land Raiders -> I like putting a lord with plague marines in friendly games to contest objectives. Kharn and berserkers go well inside also.

Defiler - > terrible. Worse version of the soulgrinder. Expesive and can only snap fire second weapon set.

Oblit vs Predator

Oblit+MoN = Predator in cost but Oblit+MoN is 1 flash light more.
Oblit has lascannon at 48" vs Predator twin Linked AC at 48"
Oblit has no other 48" gun so must walk up to 36" to use plasmacannon and at least has relentless.
Predator can fire it's twin linked AC every turn and move combat speed.
Oblit has 2+/5++ save vs Predator 13/11/10 av
Oblit can die to mass shots from small arms even with 2+. T5 helps but does nothing when a S10 ap2 blast comes along.
Predator is immune to those small arms but can get wrecked in the rear by S5 charge or S6 krak grenade.

2 Oblits vs Tri lascannon Predator
Equal cost in flash lights
2 Oblits put out 2 shots vs Predator firing 3 guns, however 1 at full bs when moving combat speed and the rest snap firing. Often times, only 2 of the predator guns can swivel and fire due to the blind spot of the gun placement on the tank.
4 wounds vs 3 hull points but that is not a good comparison
Oblitz have to take leadership tests often not a problem for lone oblitz.

Thing is the oblits have melta and deep strike for knights. Multi meltas in fact.

Additionally plasma weaponry to nice to be able to switch to. Same with heavy flamers. They bring an amount of utility that you cannot really account for with mathhammer.

Just putting my 2 cents in, a tri-las Predator is only 140 points. If it doesn't win it's points back, you've done somethin terribly wrong

Overall, I'd say the Defiler is one of the best choices for heavy support. It fills too many rolls pretty well to ignore, and can be used in almost any situation.
I'm also a huge fan of forgefiend, they lay down some heavy firepower.

Defiler suffers from identity crisis. U pay 250 to just throw a S8 ap3 large pie plate 1 turn? A basilisk or a soul grinder can do that cheaper. U are paying 100 to assault n have ac/lc or hf/extra dccw.

If defi remained at 150 pts like he did in 4 th ed, then he would still be king of heavy support. But they nerfed him to sell fiends.

I'd much rather ally in a soul grinder, give it a phlegm cannon and a harvester cannon and a mark and you're still twenty points cheaper.

Plus it has better armour, it's still a daemon and it can deep strike.


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But I tend to find that my CSm heavy support is filled with Obliterators, partly because my armour is old and I'm to poor to afford tanks (not really, but the girlfriend tells me I am.) and because they have so much use from blowing up tanks to crunching TEQs, MEQs and GEQs.