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My idias how to make Orks more competative:
HQ
Painboss - statline as a nob, Doks Tools, 'Urty Syringe, gets to choose from Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, Orky Konw-whats and 'Eavy Armour - 50 pts
Painboy - same as now, but slotless and with the statline of a boy - 25 pts

Elites
Nobs, Meganobs - get to choose Cybork Bodies for 10 pts.

Fast Attack
Deffcoptas - include a Nob.

Wargear
Cybork Body - grants FNP
KFF - Bearer get a 5++ and all models within 6" get a 5++ from shooting attacks.
Gitfinda - models that haven't moved get +1 BS. Models with SnP allways count as stationary for this purpose.

Rules
Mob rule - if a unit, that includes a character, fails a moral, pinning or fear test the player may chose to recieve d6 Str 4 AP- hits and count as having passed the test.

Feel free to discuss and/or critisize.

I think that painboyz should grant 6+ fnp and cost ~30 pts cause otherwise there'd be little use for painbosses and meks. Besides, 25 pts is way too cheap for 5+ fnp.

I don't think a painboss should have access to power klaw for ballance reasons. Maybe just ability to exchange his 'urty surgine for a bigchoppa for free. It won't get used though. But the abundancy of power klaws is no good.

I'd just have Cybork bodies give 5++ as before.

Deffkoptas - include a mek, not a nob. Mek with an access to bosspole. I can see nob koptas with saws being a bit over the top as an easy resilient powerklaw delivery with their speed, scout, ability to fly over obstacles and ammount of relatively cheap wounds.

Mob rule - fine as it is (the table) except for random wound allocation. Just allow the player to allocate wounds himself like in the greentide formation. Random wound allocation is just a tedious time consumption.

Why not have cybork bodies grant either:

+1 fnp
6+ invun

This would make it a useful upgrade but not overpowered. As to points cost im thinking 10 points for the +1 fnp and 5 points for the 6+ invun version.

That'd actually be somewhat mean considering a 6++ 4+ fnp warboss. Just pay a few extra points and get up to 3 rerolls for your 4+ fnp.

4+ FNP would be reasonable for Da Supa Kybork. I'd even not increase it's points cost cause it's allready hugely overpriced for what it's worth.

Well, If we look at the Dread Mob List from IA, the Painboss there can take a Power Klaw, Heavy Armour and other things and he's not overpowered.
As for 6+ FNP from painboyz - sounds logical, but orks should have gotten 6+ FNP as an army-wide rule IMHO.
A 5++ was great, but it's gone, so normal FNP would be an equal exchange, but we got the 6+ gak.
Sadly meks can't take bosspoles, so keeping as close to the current codex as we can, the Nob is the only way to solve the moral issue of the Koptas.
As for the Supa Cybork - remove Relentless, make it 35 pts and it becoms a great relic.

how to improve orks? go with the natural fluff and compare to other armies...

KFF - grants shrouded or stealth to models in 6" (see tyranids)
cybork body - 5++
hard to kill - armywide 6++ (6+ fnp would be too good, maybe during a whaaagh!)
killakanz - drop the stupid ld check
red paint job - like before, +1 inch of "free" movement
lootaz - move back to elite
looted wagons - bring em back to the dex... WITH the boomgun
uge choppa - no ap but rending
ork detachment - has obj secured, 4 troops mandatory
bigmek - bring one kan or dread unit as troops
warbboss - bring one nob unit as troops

orks in general are fine... couple of nick nacks here and there... see above. BUT they lack morale. failing LD's is the main source of defeat for orks, especially with all the defuffing, forced LD's, shrieks and mindshackle scarabs out there...
so this change would be the one change i'd like to see:

mob rule - no table, fails on a 1, passes on 2+: d6 s4 ap - hits, reroll any form of LD check. (player chooses casulties, needs bosspole to execute)
also the old substitute ld with modelcount in the unit (to a maximum of 10, see 3rd edition codex, no bosspole needed)




and the warboss gets LEADERSHIP 10. jesus... what were they thinking?!

 koooaei wrote:
I think that painboyz should grant 6+ fnp and cost ~30 pts cause otherwise there'd be little use for painbosses and meks. Besides, 25 pts is way too cheap for 5+ fnp.

Something like 35 points for a 5+ FNP? I believe that is the cost of it on a Riptide (which has it's own problems, but this is an Ork thread, not Tau).

EDIT: Maybe a bit more, considering the amount of models a Painboy could give FNP too..