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Ive recently ben trying to beat this one pure AM player at my gaming club and it just cant seem to be done. Our lists will consist something like this over our last couple of games together; I take a ork footslogging list with painboys, lootas and a warboss. I also equip each of my 4 30 man boy squads with shootas. I have a couple big guns and lootas in the back to knock out some vehicles while my boyz charge as he has a very mech heavy list. My opponent will usually run a tank commander with his tank possy and another leman russ group all maxed out at 3 each and all have battle cannons. He also has a dreaded manticore :(. Anyways he usually has a vendette and a couple vets as well. The first couple games were brutal as we played at 1500 points for all the games and every pieplate ignores either cover, FnP saves or both! The Leman russes cant be glanced to death by lootas with their front armour and the manitcore will usually be tucked away somewhere. I know that a footslogging list against AM is very foolish but a speed freaks list like running all bikes costs a ton of cash and the only thing I would like to do is add a couple of units to my pre existing list to improve it and not completely re work it. Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!

Would the Kommando formation and some Buggies help enough by attacking from multiple fronts?

Are you aware you can spread your troops 2'?

Are you playing missions or just "Kill-em-all?". With a ton of orks, you might be able to take and hold objectives better than he can, considering he doesn't sound like he has a lot of ObjSec troops.

On top of that, what kind of terrain are you guys playing with? A lot of times, terrain tends to be either very sparse (which really helps long range shooting) or tends to punish movement a lot more than line of sight (which also helps out shooters a lot).

Maybe (I emphasize that) with a wider selection of missions, and with a broader selection of terrain, you may even be able to fight this guy with minimal changes to your list. You may have just been playing missions (or boards) that play to his strengths and not to yours.

Otherwise, some more big guns (not too hard to get some decent "counts as" models), a unit of tankbustas (also not too hard on the wallet, and useful against a lot of threats), and/or a fast threat (bikes are expensive, but trukk boys, a dakkajet, rokkit buggies, or some other option) might be able to neutralize some of his threats and put some pressure on him where he can't take you out at his leisure. Good luck!

How are his battle cannons ignoring cover? As far as I am aware there is no way to get Ignores Cover on battle cannons.

Tankbustas and Deffkopters. Both are loaded with S8 Rockets. Front armour will be a problem, but Side/Rear you should be good. Deffkopters can scout 12" forward, then move 12" normally and Turbo-boost another 12". Tankbustas can take a Trukk as a dedicated transport, meaning it can move 12" then Flatout another 12". Use that movement to have rokkit equipped models zipping around the board to expose side/rear armour.

Blitza Bommers might be handy too, especially if he's clumping his tanks up.

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
How are his battle cannons ignoring cover? As far as I am aware there is no way to get Ignores Cover on battle cannons.

Nova cannons have ignore cover (they are not battle cannons ofc, but maybe not a big difference for a non-AM player). What concerns me are the pie plates that ignore both cover and FNP. Orks have T4, so to ignore FNP he'll need S8+, which is a Battle cannon, but that won't ignore cover. Nova cannon has ignore cover, but is S6, so won't ignore FNP.

Does orks have deepstrike?

For a bunch of pie plates, if you get closer, he'll have a bigger chance to damage himself with the pie plates through scatter. Vehicle squadrons need to be 4" from each other, so they are pretty close for a single pie to hit more of them.

You are aware that vehicle squadrons need to shoot the same target, right?

Zsolt wrote:

 NL_Cirrus wrote:
How are his battle cannons ignoring cover? As far as I am aware there is no way to get Ignores Cover on battle cannons.

Nova cannons have ignore cover (they are not battle cannons ofc, but maybe not a big difference for a non-AM player). What concerns me are the pie plates that ignore both cover and FNP. Orks have T4, so to ignore FNP he'll need S8+, which is a Battle cannon, but that won't ignore cover. Nova cannon has ignore cover, but is S6, so won't ignore FNP.

Does orks have deepstrike?

For a bunch of pie plates, if you get closer, he'll have a bigger chance to damage himself with the pie plates through scatter. Vehicle squadrons need to be 4" from each other, so they are pretty close for a single pie to hit more of them.

You are aware that vehicle squadrons need to shoot the same target, right?

AM tank commander can order his wingman to shoot at a different target if he passes a ld9 check. If there's a manticore then those 3 russes would have to be at least partially squadroned, and they won't benefit from that order, although with an enginseer it can still be done for them as well. Not much advice I can offer really except if you get within 24" of the manticore it can't shoot you as it isn't allowed to direct fire, easier said than done though. Be thankful your opponent hasn't discovered Wyverns. They'll bring all sorts of pain to a list like yours.

Does your Warlord have the finking cap? If yes then aim for the infitrate trait. That will allow you to start off all 4 of those huge units within 18 of his deployment.
Then you just take a turn of shooting and go for it

 GoonBandito wrote:
Deffkopters can scout 12" forward, then move 12" normally and Turbo-boost another 12".

Turbo-boost up to 24. They're jetbikes.




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But actually, all you have to do is just spread your boyz 2' from each other if he's so loaded with blasts.

You seem to favor boyz before toys, but try it the other way round. Minimize troops and go for Tankbustas, Meganobz, Battlewagons and Mek Gunz. Lootas can also take Trucks and move a little bit so they will hit the side armour of the Tanks.

Lordy. Do you have any trukks? A speed freak detachment like mine dreams of an IG army like that.

You need tank bustas in a battle wagon, that will sort out those stinkin ummies

Weird.... against Orks I've been feeling like the poor beleagured defenders of Gondor
That image is then completed when my Rough Riders ride out in front of my FOR to charge the Orks.

Seriously though. I've been having a bad time versus Orks - I can't keep them at range long enough and I get swamped in bodies. (I face a mech ork army with a bucket-ton of trucks and battlewagons) The Deathstrike has been more of a liability too often hitting my own fortress when I fire 'Danger Close' into the Ork Hordes.

I would suggest trying to be quicker against AM, so trukk boyz and/or boyz in battlewagons. Bikers, Deffkoptas and buggies will help also.

If you want to do boyz on foot I would suggest the greentide formation with a Big Bosspole on the warboss.

For lootas I have been putting mine in an Imperial Bunker and that has helped a lot. * can shoot out of it and you can add a quad gun, I always add an ammo store so they re-roll 1's too. The armour 14 helps and the bunker can score objectives as long as you place it within 3" of one.

Most suggestions are "Change your army".

I say, you can beat ig with footsloggas too. No need to buy a ton of new stuff.

 Otto Weston wrote:
Weird.... against Orks I've been feeling like the poor beleagured defenders of Gondor
That image is then completed when my Rough Riders ride out in front of my FOR to charge the Orks.

Seriously though. I've been having a bad time versus Orks - I can't keep them at range long enough and I get swamped in bodies. (I face a mech ork army with a bucket-ton of trucks and battlewagons) The Deathstrike has been more of a liability too often hitting my own fortress when I fire 'Danger Close' into the Ork Hordes.

Death strike? There's your problem. At least bring a manticore.

I'd suggest going for faster and tougher units such as bikes, deffkoptas and battlewagons. Also tankbustas with squiggs are good against the usual amount of armor an IG player usually brings to the table.

Between wyverns, indecent amount of rifle shots and all pie-plates a typical IG list is way too good at killing footslogging hordes...

Okay so you guys have given me a ton of useful points for my little ork footsggers against AM mech armies. I do have 2 truks, 20 stormboyz, deffkoptas and meganobs. I have been disscussing tactics with a couple of my friends as well and theyve recommended the void shield generator or a Manz missile to help create a little distruption in his lines. Something I will try and do is create target satutation with a kommando formation or the storm boyz one. I also like the idea of running TB in a battlewagon. The only thing is I find truks cant be relied on, so should I just go with a battle wagon? People have also said to beef up the dakka in the back a bit more with smash guns etc. thanks for the help so far.

Stormboyz and bikers maybe? These went down crazily in points since last edition and should guarantee you some turn 2 wrecking! I'd at least conisder using those 20 stormboyz of yours, only a few need to survive to mince some leman russes...

While Trukks certainly can't be relied on, the army you listed (2 Leman Russ squadrons, Vendetta, Manticore, and 2 squads of vets) will NEED to shoot a trukk fulla orks. The trukk isn't expected to survive, but to be a plausible threat that divides his shooting. Any shooting on those fast threats is NOT shooting on your footslogging boys.

I play both AM and orks. If you don't want to change your list much then rearrange it. You are playing a green tide list without using that formation.
Take the green tide formation all sluggas mix in about 2 units of eavy armour this will place a speed bump to many shooting lists. Upgrade about 7 boyz to nobs. Give at least 2 power klaws and the rest big choppas. Give the warlord a power klaw and big bosspoles. This unit costs 960 and will eat through every single AM tank in close combat.
Next take a CAD list with at least 1 painboy and a lvl 2 sanctic weirdboy give one of them the finkin cap role on the strategic table and get 4 chances to get infiltrate. Infiltrate the green tide completely surrounding your opponents deployment zone with boyz. You don't even need to waaaggh to get Into charge range for turn 2. Fill the rest of your cad with 2 troop choices of your choice, Personally I'd put the painboy and weirdboy in the fearless greentide blob. Then I take 5 kmb mek gunz because they are so cheap and cause massive damage. 2 squads of Gretchen to seize objectives. And take a full squad of tankbustas because if you get infiltrate this unit will cause the most havoc for a mech list. Fill the rest of your points with outflanking twin linkd rokkit buggies. This list is 1500points and is hard for many armies to deal with but fun and 9 times out of 10 your army will get infiltrate.

I have same problems vs ig , altho I put all my boiz in trukks or battlewagons and still I usualy manage to charge 1-2 tanks at max and then I die , so I don't think transport will stop ig , I'd realy try some outflanks and try to get more biger chunks of terain ( thro which you can't see through, or put models on ) I realy realized that 80% of time I need to fight some stupid terain bulshit! Like climb 3 flors for 3 turns to kill squad of 5 usles models that sit there on objektives! I wish I can destroy eny terain like bunkers and such with powerklaz !

Two words: Blitz Brigade 5 Battlewagons full of boyz = win! Tankbustas are nice too.

acidlemon wrote:
Okay so you guys have given me a ton of useful points for my little ork footsggers against AM mech armies. I do have 2 truks, 20 stormboyz, deffkoptas and meganobs. I have been disscussing tactics with a couple of my friends as well and theyve recommended the void shield generator or a Manz missile to help create a little distruption in his lines. Something I will try and do is create target satutation with a kommando formation or the storm boyz one. I also like the idea of running TB in a battlewagon. The only thing is I find truks cant be relied on, so should I just go with a battle wagon? People have also said to beef up the dakka in the back a bit more with smash guns etc. thanks for the help so far.

KFF + Ramshackle and a Leman Russ Battle Tank has only a 30% chance of a Penetrating hit, or 15% chance of disabling or destroying a Trukk in one shot. I'd say for orks that's dang reliable