Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys I was hoping you can settle an argument between a friend and I.

Orks vs Dark Angels turn 1: Dark Angels steal the initiative, Dark Angel bikes are 12 inches up the board as per their scout move, the lead bike has a teleport homer and Dark Angel Terminators are coming in on turn one. They don't scatter because of the teleport homer and are placed 6 inches up from the bikes and just 6 inches away from the Ork deployment. The 3 5-man terminator squads blow up 1 truck and wreck another leaving the Ork Battlewagon sitting just 6 inches away from them. That is the scenario in picture 1 below



Orks Turn one, I decide to move my ork boys within 1 inch of a terminator group as indicated by the red lines in the picture below, I tell my friend that I intend to tank shock his terminator group with my battlewagon indicated in the yellow box in the picture below



I tell him that I believe that his terminators will have nowhere to run and would be removed as casualties. The green box in the picture below shows where I planned on moving my battlewagon.



My argument is that because his terminators cant move through his own units (we measured between too), and can't move within 1 inch of my battlewagon or my ork boyz they would be dead. His argument was that his terminators would end up behind the battlewagon.

I ended up not pushing the issue and I did something else entirely but I took a picture so I could get your opinion on the situation.

So what do you think? Are the terminators dead or are they behind the battlewagon?

Thanks!

Remember that he can also move behind the battlewagon (towards the ork deployment) if he has enough movement. The battlewagon may or may not be long enough for that to be a possibility. It looks like at least a few of the terminators will get crunched.

We couldn't find anywhere that gave a max range for movement, so according to that argument they would all live. My argument was how can they move through the battlewagon? Because that would be the only path to get behind it.

You could also not worry about it, tank shock all but 1 of them, and since there is nowhere within coherency for the ones that must move to go, they are crushed.

If the Terminators pass their morale check, they will not die but move behind your Battlewagon.

Tank Shock says that if a unit is in the final position of the vehicle, they must be moved at least 1" away from the vehicle. The vehicle model is not, by rules anyway, pushed around like a toy car knocking models over. This is reinforced by the fact that a tank-shocked unit that passes their morale does not have to move its models, but the vehicle can still move through them. The vehicle model does not occupy space between start and finish of its move. It occupies only its final position.

For the Terminators to die, they would have to have failed their morale and been unable to Fall Back (which in your picture they can't Fall Back, IMO). Or if he had a unit at Position X pass their morale for Tank Shock (since they wouldn't have to move). This would block them in and kill them since they have no place to move to.

Slide your box back so that the last terminator is not affected and you will destroy most of them

It is a very annoying Rule but they are right. What I feel should be a list of Requirement to avoid crunch is written as a list of Requirements on how to move the Models. As such, most players can very easily meet the non-crunch outcome in the vast majority of cases, and even in the worse situations lose only one or two unless careful planning is involved. Yes, it is possible to get more, but as others have pointed out even one inch out of place is all it takes for the Unit to safely escape unscathed. The conditions do have to be right, the Unit small enough to ensure coherency is impossible, and at least one survivor is going to remain no matter what you do.

I was in a similar situation a while back.
If your tank shock displaces all the models they are allowed to move through your vehicle.
If you leave one model of the tank shocked unit with enough space to stay where it is the others have to take their coherency from it.
If they pass the ones that are now unable to remain 1" from enemies have to be taken off.
If they fail they cant go anywhere and die.

Here is the topic i started for my situation in case you are interested in reading more discussion about this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585010.page