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Can a transport vehicle still out flank a unit Iin it that can't out flank ?

Example: Can an out flanking Gorkanaught carry a unit of burna boys (they dont have out flank)in it ?

Page 168 of the BRB on out flanking mentions dedicated transport. But doesn't mention non dedicated ones.

Thanks.

How is this Gorkanaut outflanking in the first place? Gorkanauts do not have the Scout, Infiltrate, or Outflank special rules.

The outflank special rule describes the unit conferring the rule onto their dedicated transport, but nothing about the transport conferring it to the unit it carries.

If you run Mogrok boss boys it can give d3 units out flank. That's what brought up the question.

That's a neat little tactic. In this case I believe you'd have to hope to roll a 2 or better and give both the Burnas AND the Gorkanaut outflank.

Ya thought it throw some ones game off to have a Gorkanaught pop in behind their lines with a unit in it.

The unit inside doesn't need to have the Outflank rule. As long as the transport has the rule then the transport (and the unit inside) can Outflank, in the same way that a Drop Pod can Deep Strike despite the unit inside not having the Deep Strike rule.

Quanar, can you quote a rule, or post a page number on that? I looked through the book but couldn't find anything saying that regular transports could give units they're carrying Outflank. It's totally possible I just missed it though.

Also drop pods have a special rule called "Drop Pod Assault" that says that they, and the units inside them must enter play via deep strike. Regular transports have nothing like that.

I can't quote a rule that does't exist - the unit never gains Outflank, but the transport still has it, and so can use it. There is nothing in the transport or Outflank rules that says the embarked unit must have the rule in order for the transport to use the rule. The permission is given for the transport to Outflank, no restrictions above or beyond that.

And ok, so after checking Drop Pods they are more complex than just having the DS rule. So change my example to a Storm Eagle (or other Forgeworld flyer with transport capacity and Deep Strike) and it still stands - there is no requirement for the unit inside to have the rule too. This is actually spelled out in the Deep Strike rule, so I suppose you could argue that Outflank doesn't mention it at all. Permission for the transport to Outflank is given, and no restrictions are added by embarking a unit.

The absense of restrictions is not permission though. Using "There is nothing saying I can't" as an argument opens up possibilities for all sorts of ridiculous shenanigans, like changing wargear mid-mission. As you pointed out, there is a permission for vehicles to Deep Strike passengers which does not exist for outflank. The fact that they added it in for Deep Strike and not for Outflank and Scout implies a deliberate difference between the rules.

The permission is the fact that the vehicle has the Outflank rule. If a vehicle has the Stealth special rule does it lose it if a unit without Stealth embarks into it?

The vehicle can attempt to Outflank, as per the Outflank special rule, page 168. The vehicle and the embarked unit arrive together as per Combined Reserve Units, page 135.

I have stated my opinion, and referenced rules that relate to my opinion. If you choose to disagree, that is your right.

Fair Enough. Here is my reasoning for disagreeing.

The stealth example you provided is unrelated to this situation since the unit inside is not being targeted and is not utilizing the stealth special rule. The units inside transports that are arriving from reserves via outflank are utilizing a special rule they do not have.

While true that the rule on page 135 under "Combined Reserve Units" does indeed stats that when arriving from reserve a transport and it's unit will arrive together. This could also be argued to PREVENT the transport from outflanking. If the unit inside does not have permission to outflank, and they MUST arrive with their transport, the only way both units can legally enter play is by moving onto the table normally. Otherwise you are outflanking a unit that has absolutely no permission to outflank.

Deep strike specifically says that it can deep strike units inside of it regardless of whether they have deep strike or not. Scout says that vehicles may make a scout move even if the units inside do not have Scout. Outflank does NOT say this. It is extremely unlikely that they provided that stipulation for two deployment options but not the third if they intended all of them to have it.

I don't think that the unit inside the transport utilize the outflank rule. The vehicle knows how to scout, the units just happen to be inside it, the vehicle itself is fast/undetectable/small/whatever enough to be able to outflank.

Since this is another example of sloppy gw rule, we can't really do better than this.

Zsolt wrote:
Since this is another example of sloppy gw rule, we can't really do better than this.

Funny enough they did think of mentioning it under Scout , pg171 (which also confers Outflank if left in reserves). A transport doesn't lose Scout if a unit without it embarks. Leaves the poor transport with only Outflank hanging though.

The unit inside do not need the outflank rule. Same as a unit inside a drop pod don't need the ds rule.

Drop pods have a rule specifying that the unit inside doesn't need the deep strike rule. Deep Strike also has a rule saying the units inside don't need the rule. Scout also has a rule saying the unit inside doesn't need Scout. Outflank doesn't have anything that says that.

Spetulhu wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
Since this is another example of sloppy gw rule, we can't really do better than this.

Funny enough they did think of mentioning it under Scout , pg171 (which also confers Outflank if left in reserves). A transport doesn't lose Scout if a unit without it embarks. Leaves the poor transport with only Outflank hanging though.

Outflank is given by Scout, so if something has Scout, it has Outflank.

He said that right in the post you quoted. However the conundrum is with the formation giving D3 units just the outflank special rule.