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So I've just bought myself a heldrake. Mostly because I adore the model. I think it's beautiful
I never found a place for them in 6th as I only played 1500 points. But with the drop of 7th my friends and I have increased to 1850. And with supplements allowing double CAD's my list has taken a little transformation. And I've squeezed one in.

Then, after buying one today, to my disgust I read the FAQ to find it now classed as a Hull mounted weapon... So they're not quite as good. But are they still good? How do people use them now? What are they best employed as?

Yes, they are now good, before they were veering between OP and broken, especially if taken in multiples.

There were some very angry people (well, an angry person really) when that FAQ happened, but the reality is they remain a well costed, moderately flexible and durable unit, and I share your love of the model, I have one on my paint desk at the moment because I felt I could start taking them without ruining my opponents fun.

They're no longer a point and click easy mode unit, in fact if all units had the same balance of limitations with advantages and abilities as the HD does now, the game in general would be much better.

They are still a decent unit, better when you consider that they are the only flyer for chaos (in the chaos Marines codex that is) and they still have their place.

As far as their battlefield role, its still basically the same as it used to be, flamer for roasting infantry, autocannon for anti-vehicle.the HD is just not as good at either as it used to be.

OK. Well I have an 1850 pint list up in the list section named world eaters khorne armour rush. I have one in that list. I love the model so much that I'm thinking of dropping a Maulerfiend and adding in a second drake. But I don't know of they'll be good run in twos. I'd probably run them both with baleflamers, I definitely prefer them.

Still amazing with St7 ap2 vectors and a torrent flamer to remove troops.

I have 2 with the Baleflamers. I tend to only field one at the moment, since im having fun with Spawn and Bikers, but I'm considering adding the second one in and using the Hades Autocannon for some anti-air.

Even with the nerf, the drake does well, its a scary unit and attracts a lot of attention.

Does the Hades really make a difference to AA when you consider D3 S7 ap2 vector hits. And the Hades o ly being ap4? Are pairs of them the future?

I find it hard to get the most out of vector and then shooting, often it seems like to get the best out of one, I have to forego the other...

Like I started in another Thread, Chaos doesent have very good AA options. Im considering dusting off my Forgefiend at this point.

If you're able to use FW stuff, IA13 has the answer - the Helltalon is looking like a decent air-to-air unit.

Baleflamer drake still works. Hades drake is dead.

The hades relied on vector striking vehicles and then shooting at their rear armour. With a hull mounted weapon this is no longer possible. It's damage output vs a vehicle is now 1 vector strike, or the autocannon against a vehicle's front or side armour.

I don't get how 8 s8 possibly tankhunter stots is 'dead'. Pretty much enough to force any flyer to go jinking all day and still get a pen or two.

 koooaei wrote:
I don't get how 8 s8 possibly tankhunter stots is 'dead'. Pretty much enough to force any flyer to go jinking all day and still get a pen or two.

Because it is only 4 shots, not 8, and at bs 3.

Also 'all day' is difficult on a unit without a turret weapon or vector dancer.

In an anti flyer role, the hades drake is substantially worse now that it is unable to vector strike and shoot the same target, or target rear armour.

Against a vendetta which is not jinking a hades drake will average 1 glancing or penetrating hit per turn. Half of this if it jinks.

If I wanted a flyer to shoot down flyers then I would go with the fireraptor.

Yep, 4 is a bit worse. I think i have confused it with a forgefiend with double the ammount of shots.

Fireraptor is FW though. I don't have anything against it but some people might find it inappropriate if you bring something like a secaran to have a chance of killing a few wave serpents of theirs.

OK, so take the bale drake and rely on vector striking other fliers, and laugh evily when I unleash the flamer on ground units...

'Laugh evilly' - is actually a mandatory requirement to unlock a heldrake in your fast attack.

What about 2?

Must twirl mustache for 2-d one.

 Azreal13 wrote:
If you're able to use FW stuff, IA13 has the answer - the Helltalon is looking like a decent air-to-air unit.

Do you mean the Hellblade? The Helltalon is the fighterbomber.
The Traitor Legions' answer to the TIE fighter is okay but not exactly great. It's a lot cheaper than a heldrake but not to the point that you're fielding 2-1.

The major problem is that whilst a heldrake is one of the toughest flyers up there, a Hellblade is made of wafers. It's got enough firepower that it can trade damage with a drake but it's going to run out of hit points first!

More importantly, its major rivals for aerial superiority fighters either have turreted main weapons (storm talon) or vector dancer (crimson hunter), so arc tracking is going to be an issue. I don't have a feel yet for how good that D6+2" barrel roll is going to be at countering them.

I think I'm avoiding Forge world units for now... And when I do I'm likely to go for a decimator to start with...

Facing many AM/IG gunline armies lately in my local area I use one or two Baleflamer Drakes for my CSM, preferably against their HQ units and Heavy Weapon teams. The damage dealt to crowded T3 units is brutal

Heldrakes are also a welcome distraction for your advancing/redeploying/objective grabbing CC units. They force your enemy into deciding between several targets and spread fire. Make sure you put them behind cover as much as possible, especially after entering the table. High buildings (should be found on most tables nowadays) make a difference on how effective Heldrakes are. If you are able to hide them completely from parts of the battlefield, do so

Also when your Drakes get shot down, like all flyers, they crash and can then be quite lethal scattering into ground units beneath, dont forget to roll for this before removal

If you want to try something different than coming from reserve, start a Heldrake on a Skyshield Landing Pad to fly over there turn 1. The pad is also a high and quite safe place for obliterators and havocs, so no points wasted. Troops beneath can grab mission objectives left, right or in front of it and benefit from its cover save most times

Against a gunline Tau army though... ? Nope, bad idea and there are other armies I wouldnt recommend using the Heldrake, like Eldar with Seers (Doom) and Serpents for example

The model grew on me too, although I didnt really like it at first. It's a nice kit which fits the Fiend/Warpsmith aesthetics quite well

My primary opponent is a tau suit player. And although his 2 riptides have sky fire I still fancy the drakes chances. And I'm trying to build an all round list anyway... So it might have to be 2. I've put a new list up in the army list forum...

I love drinking the river of tears when CSM belly ache about their woefully underpowered flier with its "Hull Mounted" ground roaster. Or that it's S8 gun only gets 4 shots at BS3 against front armor..... Or that you only get d3 S7 out of phase melee hits and now can't shoot at rear armor....



DakkaJet is my only response.

The heldrake is still AMAZING.

Ran it for the first time last night. I will be buying a second. It was incredible. It was arguably a complete game changer when it came on. Even managed to vector strike the enemy stormwolf to a point it crashed and burned and killed everything inside apart from the rune priest.

It's safe to say I was very very pleased. And I agree, they are amazing. 'still' I can't comment on as I never read one before. But currently they definitely work....

I don't use the Hades drake anymore, if I want tank hunting I prefer Forgefiends or still the good old Oblits. The baleflamer still puts the hurt on MEQ, though. The vector strike works fine against anything non-Tyranid.

I rely on Maulerfiends for anti Armour. And haven't really been disappointed yet!

As for the drake, I can't see the benefit of the hades. The flamer melts MEQ, and the vector obliterated the enemy flier (with a touch of luck too).

Helldrakes is my girlfriends favorite model. I can't wait to get her one.

She seems to like Thousand Sons deity and paint scheme.. Helldrakes, Warpfiend, hellbrutes, forge and maulerfiends, cultists and the termies lord and ahriman models.. I am excite.. I'm giving her leftovers from DV set. She's only getting started.

I'd never be happier to fight a helldrake at five hundred points

Hellblade is quite cool with the upgraded cannons

I find it too hard to justify them currently. I still use them (1-2), but they're definitely less killy than last edition, and this codex needs help with that.