Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was looking over the Blasts rules and the Allies rules and came upon this gem.

I'll start with the Allies part.

Allies of Convenience (BRB, pg 126, Description and Last point). "Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as 'enemy units' that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers...Are affected by attacks, Special rules or abilities used by allies of convenience that effect 'enemy' units within a certain range or area of effect."

The Other Allies options (D.A. and C.T.A.) both reference A.o.C.

Blast (BRB, pg 158). 'You cannot place a blast marker so that the base or the hull of any friendly model is even partially under it."

Template (BRB, Pg 173). "Place the template so that the narrow end is touching the base of the firing model...without touching any other friendly models".

So if I am reading this correctly it is legal to flame through a unit of A.o.C, D.A., or C.t.A, to hit an enemy unit on the other side as the only restriction to using a template is that you cannot place it over a friendly model.
Thus if i had a ally that was 1in away from a unit I wanted to hit with a Blast template I could place the template so that I hit both if that was an option.

Seems legit, would hurt my army more than my opponent, and fits the fluff, but what do we think.

is this correct RAW, or is this another area where poor rules writing is causing interesting ideas to spring up.

The restriction is they can't be shot (not that they can't be targeted).
Would this not count as shooting them?

 grendel083 wrote:
The restriction is they can't be shot (not that they can't be targeted).
Would this not count as shooting them?

Yes it would count as shooting them, it is not targeting them, but the rules are only concerned with shooting them.

Incorrect. Shot is, in the rules, used to refer to a shooting attack, which requires targeting.

Indeed, not sure who is agreeing to what part, but as they are not allowed to be shot (targetted), there is no restriction on clipping a model of yours next to the enemy Unit.

Maximising the number of targets would come into play though, reducing this chance (and your own model is not included in that)

Rigeld2,
Can you post the Rule which defines what a shot is for me please?

JinxDragon wrote:
Rigeld2,
Can you post the Rule which defines what a shot is for me please?

"roll a D6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once, as we’ll explain in more detail later."

Each weapon has a number of "shots". They are used to know how many times you roll things?

JinxDragon wrote:
Rigeld2,
Can you post the Rule which defines what a shot is for me please?

It's actually confusing, so I'll retract my statement.

We know that "to shoot" means "to make a shooting attack"



And to have been shot means that someone was shooting at you. I'll leave the rest up to others with time on their hands as I'm on way too many cold meds to care.

Blacktalos,
A Rule telling us to do X for each Shot does not define what a Shot actually is.

The reason I asked the question is purely academical, I am not looking to prove a point but am actually curious if the book ever defines what the shot itself actually is. There are many things which refer to the Shot itself, to do X to it or to do Y to calculate if it does something, but those all require us to agree on what the Shot is to begin with. There are even Rules which refer to the Shot itself in such a way that it does create a few puzzles as to what the Authors could be intending, for example if the Shot is Elevated it ignores the Cover Save granted by Intervening Models. It would just be nice for there to be an actual definition which could be used to determine how the Shot itself functions, as knowing what the shot actually is would change the interpenetration of certain Rules.

So yes, I agree we can deduct a rough shape of what the Shot is from the Rules presented but...
I just want a glossary of terms as all good Rule systems use them for a reason....

See there in lay the question. In a single force org Bound list or a BB unbound list one cannot shot at nor target other friendly models. (this is understood)

It is know that if you scatter a blast template over friendly models they still generate hit and wounds even though they were not the intended target.

So if a attack that has an area of effect falls over or hits a Allie that is considered an 'Enemy unit" it is considered a legal hit.

I find it interesting that this is even possible where I could use a meat shield of non-BB allies to get close and take hits from my blasts without worry of issue. (kind of like having a unit on the lower level of a ruin and targeting the opposing players units on a higher of the same ruin with blast templates.).

Still it is fun to think about.