Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello all.

I am just starting playing 40K and looking for some advice.

I am looking for a HQ that would be basically be in the thick of things engaging the enemy - i.e. come in via drop pod behind enemy lines and attack.

I have around 330pts to spend so have come up with the below:

CT: Imperial Fists
Librarian w/ Mastery lvl 2, Terminator Armour, Force Maul & Primarch Wrath - 135pts
Command Squad w/ 3x Veterans + Apothecary, 4x Chainswords, 4x Combi-Plasmas & Drop Pod - 190pts

I have been told that this might be too lightweight for what I want so I came up with:

CT: Imperial Fists
Chapter Master w/Artificer Armour, Force Weapon & Primarch Wrath - 185pts
Honour Guard Squad w/ 3x Honour Guard & Chapter Champion & Drop Pod- 145pts

Is this better or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks.

If you're using Imperial Fists CTs, then your best choice is Lysander. Drop him with a command squad equiped with plasma or meltaguns, and an apothecary. Lysander will have FNP on top of his storm shield and Eternal Warriror - he is one of the most durable models in the game, and so can shield your command squad from the first turn of shooting.

This would be about 100pts over the point budget you set, but would be far more effective than the two options you mentioned. If you want to use non-named characters, you really do need something like the Shield Eternal if you're planning on landing these dudes in the thick of it, otherwise your opponent is just going to use S8 AP2 to get instant death hits against your HQ model, and then murder the rest of your command/honour guard squad with regular fire. And doing that for 330pts is hard to do if you also want to have any ranged or melee weapon upgrades.

A couple other points:
- Chapter Masters can't take force weapons, maybe you're thinking of power weapons?
- The Librarian Terminator only has one weapon by default (his force weapon), which would get replaced by the Primarch's Wrath if you took him. You can get by that restriction by buying him a storm bolter.
- Remember that the Primarch's Wrath is a Salvo weapon, and so you can't assault after shooting it unless you have terminator armor.
- The Primarch's Wrath does not benefit from the IF's bolter drill rule - that is only specifically granted to a strict subset of weapons, of which the Primarch's Wrath is not (fluff aside, it is not a "Bolter", it is a "Primarch's Wrath")

how about a Lvl 2 Libby with Termi Armour attached to a 5 man Assault Termie squad thats deep striking. Yes deepstriking is more dangerous then podding, but this unit packs alot more punch then either of the other 2 options. Id hav the Libby roll on Biomancy, where there is a good chance he will get a power or 2 to beef up his close combat skills.

Dont have my book on me, but for 330 points you should be able to get a :
Lvl 2 Libby + TDA- 115
5 Assault Termies with 3 TH & SS and 2 Lightning Claw ones- 215

Personally, I'd take Librarian, 9 Sternguard with 2 Combis and a Pod. 328 points.

Librarian rolls on Telepathy for Psychic Shriek which can be a terror to MCs and small, heavily armoured squads, and the Sternguard unload with Special Ammo that is effective whatever the target. If you need to pop a tank, save the Libby for next turn and use the combis on it, then Shriek and shoot the juicy contents.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
If you're using Imperial Fists CTs, then your best choice is Lysander. Drop him with a command squad equiped with plasma or meltaguns, and an apothecary. Lysander will have FNP on top of his storm shield and Eternal Warriror - he is one of the most durable models in the game, and so can shield your command squad from the first turn of shooting.

This would be about 100pts over the point budget you set, but would be far more effective than the two options you mentioned. If you want to use non-named characters, you really do need something like the Shield Eternal if you're planning on landing these dudes in the thick of it, otherwise your opponent is just going to use S8 AP2 to get instant death hits against your HQ model, and then murder the rest of your command/honour guard squad with regular fire. And doing that for 330pts is hard to do if you also want to have any ranged or melee weapon upgrades.

A couple other points:
- Chapter Masters can't take force weapons, maybe you're thinking of power weapons? Yeah - got them mixed up.
- The Librarian Terminator only has one weapon by default (his force weapon), which would get replaced by the Primarch's Wrath if you took him. You can get by that restriction by buying him a storm bolter. Ok - didn't realise that he only had his power weapon.
- Remember that the Primarch's Wrath is a Salvo weapon, and so you can't assault after shooting it unless you have terminator armor. Didn't realise Artificer armour doesn't have relentless.
- The Primarch's Wrath does not benefit from the IF's bolter drill rule - that is only specifically granted to a strict subset of weapons, of which the Primarch's Wrath is not (fluff aside, it is not a "Bolter", it is a "Primarch's Wrath") I asked this in the You Make Da Rules forum and I got the same answer as you.

It looks like I overestimated the toughness of the Chapter Master...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
Personally, I'd take Librarian, 9 Sternguard with 2 Combis and a Pod. 328 points.

Librarian rolls on Telepathy for Psychic Shriek which can be a terror to MCs and small, heavily armoured squads, and the Sternguard unload with Special Ammo that is effective whatever the target. If you need to pop a tank, save the Libby for next turn and use the combis on it, then Shriek and shoot the juicy contents.

This sounds good to me - although what will be the survivorbility of this unit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
how about a Lvl 2 Libby with Termi Armour attached to a 5 man Assault Termie squad thats deep striking. Yes deepstriking is more dangerous then podding, but this unit packs alot more punch then either of the other 2 options. Id hav the Libby roll on Biomancy, where there is a good chance he will get a power or 2 to beef up his close combat skills.

Dont have my book on me, but for 330 points you should be able to get a :
Lvl 2 Libby + TDA- 115
5 Assault Termies with 3 TH & SS and 2 Lightning Claw ones- 215

Could this defeat Imperial tanks?

Will be facing an Imperial army and my friend loves his long rang tanks.

if ur going tank busting then there are better options.

5 Command Squad + 5 Melta Guns and a Drop Pod is 185 points. Cant beat that tank killing power.

5 Leagion of Damned with Melta Gun, Multi Melta and Combi Melta is 155 points. They giv you 2 chances to deepstrike in and destroy the vehicle of ur choice.

And theres always Sternguard with Combi-Meltas in a drop pod.

There are many ways to take out tanks, with SM.

With the Imperial Fist CT i think the best option though is devastators. Tank Hunters is a huge asset to killing vehicles. Even 10 devastators with 4 Lascannons is only 220 points. thats 4 S9 shots with rerolls to armour Pen. And you hav 6 marines who can die b4 you lose a LC.

timmythetool wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Personally, I'd take Librarian, 9 Sternguard with 2 Combis and a Pod. 328 points.

Librarian rolls on Telepathy for Psychic Shriek which can be a terror to MCs and small, heavily armoured squads, and the Sternguard unload with Special Ammo that is effective whatever the target. If you need to pop a tank, save the Libby for next turn and use the combis on it, then Shriek and shoot the juicy contents.

This sounds good to me - although what will be the survivorbility of this unit?

As good as 11 T4 wounds with a 3+ save. So assuming you're not just dropping in the open against an enemy gunline with no cover and supporting units, pretty good. And as far as SM go, it's offensive capability for the points is second to none.

I would go for the chapter master with vanguard if you are going close combat or stanguard for tank hunting ( you cukd do sanguard with heavy flamer',1 bolter, 2 combined melt as and a combined grab for a bit of both) I would also take a command squad.

What is the purpose of this drop unit going to be?


My personal pref is command squad drop with melta guns and melta bombs. with Storm shields and a apoth

They have an ok chance at getting in with MC or Heavy vehicles a like.

I could bring em in with Ether a lib with the sentinals of terra bone item that lets me reroll failed psychic tests, and keep it cheap.

You could also consider a Honer guards and a Chapter master with a artificer armor and Shield eternal to tank.

 Desubot wrote:
What is the purpose of this drop unit going to be?


My personal pref is command squad drop with melta guns and melta bombs. with Storm shields and a apoth

They have an ok chance at getting in with MC or Heavy vehicles a like.

I could bring em in with Ether a lib with the sentinals of terra bone item that lets me reroll failed psychic tests, and keep it cheap.

You could also consider a Honer guards and a Chapter master with a artificer armor and Shield eternal to tank.

My intention was to drop the units behind enemy lines and engage them while my main army slowly moves up and takes the objective but it seems like I would need to spend a lot more points then I have to get units strong enough to do this - I am playing a 1000pts game.

Thank you all for your advice - that comment of using the Legion of the Damned interests me a lot as I could have them as the harrassers and using the HQ in a drop pod to secure and hold the objective...

Will give my army and tactics some more thought.

Lysander (230)
Assault marines 5-man, 2 flamers, meltabombs on sarge, drop pod (100)

 ectoplastic wrote:
Lysander (230)
Assault marines 5-man, 2 flamers, meltabombs on sarge, drop pod (100)

It would be a bit cheaper with a captian or chapter master with shield eternal for basically the same thing and able to sweep.