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This Friday I will be playing against GK. I have been told that he is very WAAC, so I want to destroy him! He is likely to tailor his list to go against Tyranids as I have recently started them but I will be playing Tau.

The size game will be 1500 points.

My plan is to give everything interceptor and hopefully destroy about 40% of his list then. I'm thinking of castling up in the corner to reduce the effectiveness of his alpha strike too.
Does anyone know if the new Riptide would be good against him? I usually only take a single Riptide, but due to him spamming dreadknights I'm going to take another.

I'll use the buffmaster in a plasma suit squad to destroy one Dreadknight and I'll bubble wrap my guys with Fire Warriors.

Thoughts? Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Tau are a pretty good matchup against GK for all the reasons you've already highlighted.

You mentioned DKs and you also mentioned WAAC so I'll assume if he has any power armour models, they are interceptors or 1-2 super small squads of objective holder PAGK.

So mainly focusing on terminators... At best, he has 2+/4++ and volume of fire OR high AP shooting will work just fine against this. Even the lowly fire warriors with STR5 have a chance to rip off wounds from the DKs... the problem is they will die in droves to the incinerators. Paladins may be a big concern for you unless you are running broadsides with the rail rifles, but forsaking all those missile shots is very hard to do even for STR8 AP1.

A Farsight Enclaves list with suits as scoring would be pretty brutal for him to face. Give them all plasma and watch his army disappear.

You are correct about the power armour, but he usually doesn't care about objectives and neither will I because of it.

Paladins are not a worry for me as the riptide's IA overcharge is S8

Would you recommend 1 or 2 HYMP broadside squads? I thought 1 but maybe 2 would be better.

Finally, I'd rather use a buffmaster than FE.

Bubble wrapping when huddled in a corner worked pretty fine for me in the past. Many GK players will still deep strike close to the bubble wrap since the felt loss when DSing further away is so high. Then they will flame and shoot the wrap and it will be shooting range in the following turn.

Mobile Ap2 shots kill GK so fast. also I found crisis suits and other jump infantry really problematic because I cant catch them in my terminator armor. Basically kite and kill with VOF and Ap2

Be careful though - I'm hearing a lot of talk about expensive multi-wound crisis suits and broadsides. That's very juicy for grey knight force weapons... And not all GK units are plodding terminators. There should also be a fair number of shunting interceptors that will have no problem counter assaulting your crisis suits once they make their move.

It's a bit of a tangent, but my friend recently wanted to try out "The Eight" list from the farsight supplement. Now, it was mostly just for fun and neither of us were taking it very seriously - but things did not go well for the tau. He got my dreadknight down to only one wound, and so decided to charge it with four of the "eight" including the battle suit with the melta-melee weapons. That one wound dreadknight swung four times, hit four times, and killed all four of them. (Their drones had already been incinerated by this point in the battle.) It was brutal.

I mean, I think you're definitely on the right track here, but be really careful. Once he's in combat, you're screwed.

When I play my GK against Tau, my goal is eliminate the soft units with Marker Lights via Shunting Interceptors and DreadKnights while Gating my GKT+Draigo+Librarian wherever needed. The harder units can be dealt with later, once the buffers are gone.

Just because I field a NSF does not mean I have to Deep Strike.

SJ

Indeed all GK armies that go double DK should include at least 1 Interceptor Squad to run interference for them.

The only units that deepstrike in my army no matter who I play are my Libby+Termie squad, who probably have GoI anyway so even then...

Keep Int. On the Riptide, feel free to have battlesuits because their 2+ save will tie up everything but the Dreadknight and Draigo in CC

Okay guys, should I take FW as my troops or sniper Kroot?

Take the Firebase formation for preferred enemy space marines

That would eat up like 700 points and its only a 1500 point game

Does that even work on GKs if it's preferred enemy Space Marines?

So...here's the consideration.

Fire Warriors with many shots...30" range gives you 1-2 turns of shooting. Unfortunately, NDKs are going to erase kroot or fire warriors without a save...so they need to die first.

Yes - Firebase Support prefered enemy includes all Space Marine types (just not Chaos - cause Chaos)

Does it actually say it doesn't work on csm? I was led to believe it did :p

I don't want trouble for posting rules but the Bane of Angels special rule includes all space marines except CSM.

Without Reading the other answers...
The Rnva riptide is brutal against monstrous creatures like dk.
Broadsides with hymp together with Interceptor riptide.plasmarifles on broadsides and riptide so you have some nice Rapid Fire Plasma After intercepting. Give em Fire Support Base for extra lulz.
Plasma Crisis Teams and fusion Crisis for Instant Death on everything toughness 4.
Warscaper drone from farsight supplement for threating difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.
Take 2 riptides,1 rnva and 1 yvhera for Plasma Nova charged Terminator Death.
Gk will be tabled turn 2.

If he expects nids and you bring tailored tau the game is yours to lose.

Yea its pretty lame of a move especially because... well... you kinda already know what he is bringing even WITHOUT him fighting something else.

Also Winterwind the rules on the latest Riptide were updated again, it can no longer Nova for a AP2 flamer... thank god.

Just Looked it up, still has AP 2

So I'm supposed to feel bad because he'll be tailoring a list against an army that I won't be playing? The simple solution to that would be for him not to tailor then.
I know what he'll be using as he's WAAC so he spams the best units, therefore I am too. It just so happens that my best units will utterly cripple him!

Grey Knight Janitor wrote:If he expects nids and you bring tailored tau the game is yours to lose.

SGTPozy wrote:So I'm supposed to feel bad because he'll be tailoring a list against an army that I won't be playing? The simple solution to that would be for him not to tailor then.
I know what he'll be using as he's WAAC so he spams the best units, therefore I am too. It just so happens that my best units will utterly cripple him!

I'm want to agree with the Janitor on this one. He sounds like the type of player who will just complain because you took an army he wasn't expecting. I know his type. If, by some means, he wins against Tau, then he'll have even bigger bragging rights, which he will probably do.

Tau are known as one of the highest Tier armies at present. I think it's in the top 3? Astrum Milliterium and Eldar being the other 2. Nids can be very competitive too, due to their Flying formation. I would've thought it be more appealling to play against an army dedicated to beat you, and then gain even more satisfaction to beat HIM. Remember that Nids come in 2 forms, the swarm and the monsterous. What do you think he'd expect you to take?

In terms of nids, it would be nice to see what you have and try to build something that way.

Otherwise I'd say going with 2 units of Fire Warriors, 2 Riptides and 3 Broadsides with the general jist of what people before me have been saying. Not sure how many points that makes. Commander squads are fun but im not sure how effective they are against GKs.

Sketchyfk wrote:

Tau are known as one of the highest Tier armies at present. I think it's in the top 3? Astrum Milliterium and Eldar being the other 2.

I'm just curious, where on earth do you get the idea that Astra Militarum is a top tier army? It's outclassed by Eldar, Tau, Daemons, Imperial Knights, Necrons and Space Marines. If I recall correctly, at the most recent major tournaments, AM has been one of the worst armies.

GrafWattenburg wrote:

Sketchyfk wrote:

Tau are known as one of the highest Tier armies at present. I think it's in the top 3? Astrum Milliterium and Eldar being the other 2.

I'm just curious, where on earth do you get the idea that Astra Militarum is a top tier army? It's outclassed by Eldar, Tau, Daemons, Imperial Knights, Necrons and Space Marines. If I recall correctly, at the most recent major tournaments, AM has been one of the worst armies.

From what I've read about them, and the battle reports online, they have placed pretty high since 7th ed release. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. Do you have a good site for up to date top tier army lists? Which Tournaments are you going by?

I find it funny that people think a GK player that takes the slightly more optimal of two to three units available is a Win At All Cost player. Yes, we take DreadKnights because they are our best Heavy unit, versus taking a non-Dedicated Land Raiders which cost too much for what they bring to the game for the already expensive GK. Taking DreadKnights over Land Raiders is not WAAC, it's Playing It Smart.

Will he take GK Terminaters or GK Strikers? Its a matter of choice because the GKT are the better unit while the Strikes are cheaper. Does taking GKT as Troops make him a WAAC player, or is it that he likes TDA over PA?

The GK Librarian is the must take HQ choice because it's the cheapest PML3 character in the game, and the most useful HQ in the GK codex. Yes, he could spend more for a less useful HQ, but why would he? So he could be less of a WAAC player you think he is? If he takes a Grand Master, or a Brother Captain, or even a Brotherhood Champion, he has decided for whatever reason to play a themed list, that means good for you!

What if he takes Purifiers? If so, he has to take vehicles because Purifiers can't Deep Strike. This means Rhinos, non-dedicated Rhinos, or a Stormraven. Quite the points sink, which takes points away from other options due to the high point cost of GK units. Versus Nids, Purifiers are awesome. Versus Tau? Purifiers are still really good, just at a slight disadvantage of requiring easily destroyed transports.

If he takes Dreadnoughts, Purgators, or Techmarines? Call yourself lucky.

What about Allies? A WAAC player might take Grav Centurions with Tigarius, plus a cheap Troop. However, that does take points away from his GK options.

Ironically, I true WAAC player would not be playing a GK list, they would be playing Eldar. From a GK player, I would take the same list versus Tau as I would Nids, and just adjust my strat, not my list.

Is too list tailoring to defeat one person with a known list, who is the WAAC player?

SJ

Sketchyfk wrote:

Grey Knight Janitor wrote:If he expects nids and you bring tailored tau the game is yours to lose.

SGTPozy wrote:So I'm supposed to feel bad because he'll be tailoring a list against an army that I won't be playing? The simple solution to that would be for him not to tailor then.
I know what he'll be using as he's WAAC so he spams the best units, therefore I am too. It just so happens that my best units will utterly cripple him!

I'm want to agree with the Janitor on this one. He sounds like the type of player who will just complain because you took an army he wasn't expecting. I know his type. If, by some means, he wins against Tau, then he'll have even bigger bragging rights, which he will probably do.

Tau are known as one of the highest Tier armies at present. I think it's in the top 3? Astrum Milliterium and Eldar being the other 2. Nids can be very competitive too, due to their Flying formation. I would've thought it be more appealling to play against an army dedicated to beat you, and then gain even more satisfaction to beat HIM. Remember that Nids come in 2 forms, the swarm and the monsterous. What do you think he'd expect you to take?

In terms of nids, it would be nice to see what you have and try to build something that way.

I haven't actually said that I will be playing Tyranids, he's just presuming. Also, Tau aren't top 3 anymore, they're about the 4/5th best (beaten by Eldar, IoM shenanigans, Daemons and kinda joint with Necrons) people just still think that Tau are super powerful.
I just want to play Tau really as I haven't faced the guy in 7th yet, and I don't have many Tyranids; I have the swarm box, a flyrant and a mawloc (in my games people have been okay with me proxying guys, my group is cool like that). I have no idea what he'll expect.

Otherwise I'd say going with 2 units of Fire Warriors, 2 Riptides and 3 Broadsides with the general jist of what people before me have been saying. Not sure how many points that makes. Commander squads are fun but im not sure how effective they are against GKs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I find it funny that people think a GK player that takes the slightly more optimal of two to three units available is a Win At All Cost player. Yes, we take DreadKnights because they are our best Heavy unit, versus taking a non-Dedicated Land Raiders which cost too much for what they bring to the game for the already expensive GK. Taking DreadKnights over Land Raiders is not WAAC, it's Playing It Smart.

Will he take GK Terminaters or GK Strikers? Its a matter of choice because the GKT are the better unit while the Strikes are cheaper. Does taking GKT as Troops make him a WAAC player, or is it that he likes TDA over PA?

The GK Librarian is the must take HQ choice because it's the cheapest PML3 character in the game, and the most useful HQ in the GK codex. Yes, he could spend more for a less useful HQ, but why would he? So he could be less of a WAAC player you think he is? If he takes a Grand Master, or a Brother Captain, or even a Brotherhood Champion, he has decided for whatever reason to play a themed list, that means good for you!

What if he takes Purifiers? If so, he has to take vehicles because Purifiers can't Deep Strike. This means Rhinos, non-dedicated Rhinos, or a Stormraven. Quite the points sink, which takes points away from other options due to the high point cost of GK units. Versus Nids, Purifiers are awesome. Versus Tau? Purifiers are still really good, just at a slight disadvantage of requiring easily destroyed transports.

If he takes Dreadnoughts, Purgators, or Techmarines? Call yourself lucky.

What about Allies? A WAAC player might take Grav Centurions with Tigarius, plus a cheap Troop. However, that does take points away from his GK options.

Ironically, I true WAAC player would not be playing a GK list, they would be playing Eldar. From a GK player, I would take the same list versus Tau as I would Nids, and just adjust my strat, not my list.

Is too list tailoring to defeat one person with a known list, who is the WAAC player?

SJ

His personality is what makes him WAAC, he quite often tries to cheat like he always 'accidentally' mixes up his psychic dice pool with his other dice (giving him more dice), he always gives himself more dice from mastery levels than he should (doesn't reduce the amount even though some units have died), he often rolls out of sight, and I could go on but you get the point.

This accompanied with spamming awesome units (such as the Dreadknight) are what makes him WAAC.

I'm tailoring my list to show him how annoying a game can be when you face an army that can completely destroy you. (in 6th ed, he took a really powerful list to a game that we had agreed would be friendly, he took 3 dreadknights which I had no way to take out as I had basically no ap2)

WAAC is a state of mind, you could have the worst list ever and still be WAAC, you just usually see WAAC players using the best units in their army (anyway, GK are a powerful army anyway).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Finally, how could I be WAAC if I'm not playing Eldar?

Don't play cheaters. Problem solved.

SJ

why would you want to table grey knights???

Why Would you want to go to the toilet? Cuz you HAVE to...
Its unavoidable to not smear waac players their loose into their nostrils,up their ears and faces , laugh like a maniac and... Uh,m sorry, nevermind

I would actually advise against castling in a corner. Sure, you get a bunch of Interceptor/Overwatch fire, but keep in mind the Vortex the Grey Knights have from Sanctic. A ML3 libby, often 2, is pretty well mandatory, so that's a lot of chances to get the power. Dropping that in the middle of your castle is gonna make you hate your life.

As far as what to bring? Thinking of what I hate to see across the table, I bloody HATE Kroot with Sniper rifles. As the cheapest snipers in the game, plunking 2 squads in cover can cause some serious headaches for Dread Knights and Terminators. Ion-sides can also be problematic, as dealing with armor in the shooting phase can be.... problematic for Grey Knights. A full missile side team will also reap its share before we can take them down. A riptide with ion accelerator and early warning override will also make deep striking terminators avoid that vicinity.

Though if you wanna turn up the douche meter, ally in a Culexus assassin. Can only hit him on 6's, assault and shooting, Preferred Enemy, Instant Death, and I7 against psykers in the assault phase, all blessings maledictions are negated within 12' of him, you only manifest on 6's within 12', and your psykers don't generate warp charges if you're within 12' of him. He also infiltrates. An opponent brought two of them against me in an apoc game and I nearly came across the table.

Have ap 2 on your mind and a way to counter possible AV14 from land raiders. Interceptor and skyfire will play for itself 10 times over as well.