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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm an avid collector and painter of 40k, and truthfully just started getting my butt whooped weekly about a month ago learning 7th edition. I have enough 40k to paint to last me at least a decade or so, and I want to make the switch to fantasy, but not in the near future. My question, if you should choose to answer it, is how do you recommend learning about warhammer fantasy?

I bought Dan Abnett's Thunder and Steel, and the official rulebook seems like an expansive overview. Basically, I want to be familiar with the universe and pick an army to represent a deeply rooted theme from the background. I love how people are making 30k armies now and I'm looking to build an army that will be my capstone showcase army. One I can build up gradually with a vision from the start and not worry so much about competitiveness, or rules changes, whatever else.

So I'm thinking along the lines of old rulebooks from ebay, the black library stuff, etc but then we get into the end times, and how that is moving the story along. Should I start here maybe? I also understand some of the older literature is no longer canon, so what if anything should I avoid reading? Any thoughts on this will give me something to chew on. Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 03:39:10


 
   
Made in gb
Water-Caste Negotiator





Celestial Realm

If you wanted an easy way to start off I wouldn't really start with the End Times as you'll have to read the WHF Rulebook and the two End Times Rulebooks which is quite a lot of reading, plus the End Times rules are pretty hard to learn. As for reading Black Library books, read away! They are an excellent way to learn about each army and their history, which may help you in deciding an army. Also there just really spectacular books IMO. Hope this helps

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/11 07:26:24


 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

If you are looking to get into the universe fluff then you could always pick up old core rule books on ebay for a song (7 usd w/ free S&H buy it now, just checked). They have 90+% of the same fluff as the new rule book but the rules are of course out of date.

You can also do the same thing for the rule books. I would be hesitant to get a new rule book unless you plan to play using it within the next several months. Next year is supposed to be a bunch of fantasy releases and that likely means a new core rulebook.

After you get some base line of understanding for the setting the end times series of books is pretty incredible both in terms of interesting rules and fluff. The models are also some of the best stuff GW has done in recent history. Nagash and the mortarchs are just awesome.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





You can also check your used bookstores. Our half priced books always has some of the older rulebooks and army books in their gaming section.
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






For background, but the Time of Legends series. The sundering, Sigmar & Nagash will give you a wealth of information.

Trade rules: lower rep trades ships 1st. - I ship within 2 business days, if it will be longer I will contact you & explain. - I will NOT lie on customs forms, it's a felony, do not ask me to mark sales as "gifts". Free shipping applies to contiguous US states. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ok, thanks a ton for the replies so far. I looked up on wiki what books are in the time of legends series- this is quite a pile. I think I am mostly draw towards the following armies in no particular order...

Dark Elves
Lizardmen
Orcs & Goblins
High Elves

I play all imperium for 40k, so I kind of want to go to the 'bad guy' side of the fence in fantasy. However, I also like the idea of having a blue army, so High elves may make their way into my mind. I gather Lizardmen aren't bad guys, so to speak, but I really like the look and feel like its more unique to Warhammer than my other choices. Anyways, besides the subjective stuff, are there any books in the below list that you would recommend as far as these 4 armies are concerned? Assuming there is plenty of books w/ dark and high elves.

Any recommendation is appreciated, whether on books or armies. I am making this decision once and for all, so I need as much insight as I can get as I do NOT want to be painting more than one army for WFB. For example, I understand Lizardmen are a great starter army, and that is great, but I won't be looking for a beginner army that I can use to learn the game and then switch to something with a steeper learning curve later. I want an army that I can stck with and build on without getting bored, as one tends to become while painting up 3 space marine legions and 2 guard regiments.

Anyways, thanks again for all the info so far.



Legend of Sigmar[edit]
These books and stories were authored by Graham McNeill.

Heldenhammer * (April 2008)
Empire * (September 2009)
God King * (January 2011)
Let The Great Axe Fall * (short story)
Gods of Flesh and Blood (short story)
Sword Guardian (e-short)


The Rise of Nagash[edit]
These books were authored by Mike Lee.

Nagash The Sorcerer * (September 2008)
Nagash The Unbroken * (April 2010)
Nagash Immortal * (August 2011)
Picking The Bones (e-short)
The Sundering[edit]
These books and stories were authored by Gav Thorpe.

Malekith * (January 2009)
Shadow King * (January 2010)
Caledor * (May 2011)
Aenarion (November 2010) (short story - also released in audio version)
The Bloody Handed * (December 2010) (novella)
The Dark Path * (short story)
Never Forgive (e-short)
The Black Plague[edit]
These books were authored by C.L. Werner.

Dead Winter (May 2012)
Blighted Empire (June 2013)
Wolf of Sigmar (January 2014)
Plague Priest (e-short)
Plague Doktor (short story)
A Question of Faith (e-short)
The Last Man (e-short)
War of Vengeance[edit]
The Great Betrayal by Nick Kyme (August 2012)
Master of Dragons by Chris Wraight (October 2013)
Elfdoom by Nick Kyme
Curse of the Phoenix Crown by C.L. Werner (April 2015)
Blood of Nagash[edit]
These books were authored by Josh Reynolds

Neferata (January 2013)
Master of Death (December 2013)
Master of Mourkain (e-short)
Fangs of the Asp (Hammer and Bolter issue 26; November 2012)
Vorag Blodytooth[edit]
These stories were authored by Josh Reynolds

Ghoul King part I: Conqueror of Worms (December 2013) (e-short)
Ghoul King part II: Empire of Maggots (December 2013) (e-short)
Others[edit]
Age of Legend edited by Christian Dunn (anthology) (January 2012)
The Doom of Dragonback by Gav Thorpe (September 2014)

 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Generic disclaimer: Pick the army you like the look of the best. This is 100% gold every time.

Lizardmen are actually the supreme good guys. Well technically. They are the truest followers of the old ones, ancient enemy of chaos. They're a fantastic starter army due to being very forgiving. They play in all phases but suffer from low Init (Fantasy has some nasty Test-or-die spells and I is a common test)

One thing to note with O&G is they're deceptively shooty. Their strength comes not from CC like 40k orcs but from spamming cheap warmachines & fanatics.

High Elves are a good army. Very flexible & full of tools but tend to be frail & slightly lacking in punch.

I recommend Dark Elves! They're a fantastic army that plays in all phases with a wide variety of good builds. Rumours of end times book 3 point to Khaine being the center piece and a combining of Elves so you may *don't quote me* be able to use high elves in a dark elf army & visa versa. They lack as many tools as the HE but pack a stronger punch for it.

I'd start reading the sundering. It starts the earliest of any of those books & sets up many future events as Morathis schemes are semi revealed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/16 22:45:24


Trade rules: lower rep trades ships 1st. - I ship within 2 business days, if it will be longer I will contact you & explain. - I will NOT lie on customs forms, it's a felony, do not ask me to mark sales as "gifts". Free shipping applies to contiguous US states. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




OK, after picking up rulebooks 6 and 7, and talking to some local players, I'm pretty well settled on High Elves. I probably won't start actually playing until 9th edition comes out, assuming that is some time next year, but I'm thinking I should still start off with Island of Blood.

A couple questions-

1.) from what I can gather, the Sea Guard are pretty bad. Can I make them regular spearmen? Is it something that is easy to convert?

And, I'm considering 2 or 3 IoB boxes as a core of my HE. It seems like a good way to get some solid numbers in my list without too many duplicate models that won't be used or wanted(assuming I don't have to use the sea guard as intended)

Is the Skaven side of the box something that will give you a solid base as well? I know nothing about Skaven, I would never play them, but I do have a friend who would probably enjoy playing the game casually once in a while.

Here's the question- if you're building HE- do you like 2-3 IoB detachments, or would you prefer to have 2 IoB HE detachments and a battalion to build off of?

I'm not trying to pinch every penny, but I would like to get the most bang for my buck to get started. Any thoughts are appreciated!


 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Take my response with a grain of salt.

I usually dislike most fantasy fiction aside from the classics (Tolkien, Lewis, Martin, etc), so i can pretty much take or leave any of the fiction that isn't in the rule / game books.

That said, usually the game and rule book fiction tends to be pretty decent, the end times stuff releasing right now is pretty phenomenal (though might not have quite the same oomph if you're not up on the lore of fantasy previous to this period in time).


The single easiest way to learn how to play fantasy is to split an Island of Blood starter with someone, and both of you play both sides. Full Disclosure: 2015 likely holds the release of 9th ed. A new edition in fantasy is much like 40k ; it will mostly be the game you know, but subtle changes in rules will have dramatic influences on play. End Times just did this to us with how the magic phase works.


So i'd get that set.



EDIT: Sea Guard are not bad. They are just more expensive than either archers or spearmen, so most people immediately make the snap judgement they are gakky because they can't get past : less bodies MUST equal not as good DeathStarThink. Not so. If you want or can only fit one more unit in your list, or you want just a touch more shooting in a unit that can also fight about as well as spearmen, sea guard are very good. Obviously a combo unit is going to cost more than a purely purposed unit, but you can get a couple rounds of good shooting out of Sea guard before committing them. In pure HE lists, Seaguard always form some portion of my core. YMMV, and i'm sure there are people reading this thinking "newb", or whatever is #coolwaytobecoolonthewebatron, but i recommend exercising caution listening to those people without doing tests yourself.

Like most things, used properly and understood, Sea Guard can be pretty good. And the models are purty. If you like them, use them, and see if they mesh with your playstyle and see if you can get them to click in the list you like to make and play. They have a place in my lists, and I find them to be pretty valuable ; like most of the rest of core options used how they're intended to be used.


That said, you can just tell your opponent they are regular spearment ; fantasy tends to be a LOT LESS WYSIWYG than 40k. Converting them wouldn't take much... but because they are single block models with snap fit arms and such, it would be a lot of filing of the bows down... probably not worth the effort. I'd just keep them intact and tell your opponnent "these are regular spearmen, not LSG". If they don't shoot their bows, they are exactly the same thing game rule wise.

If you're starting out brand spankin' new to HE, yes i'd get 2 ... maybe 3 ... boxes of Island of Blood. 2 definitely, as this gives you 20 spearmen (an okay number, you probably want more), and 20 Sword Masters (i tend to run 21, myself, so this is near the sweet spot). It gives you 10 ellyrian reavers, which are phenomenal, and 2 griffons princes (which currently, aren't very good, but stand to get MUCH better in 9th.... this is due to how mounts and characters rules currently work, but is going to more than likely get changed in 9th ed). Also 2 mages, never a bad thing.

3 boxes... well... you definitely will never need 3 griffon lords. 3 mages only in specialty lists. 30 swordsmen is a lot... 15 reavers is getting to be a lot too.... the only thing that 3 boxes really assists with is more spearmen.... but at 50 bucks (if you split it new, probably 25-30 on ebay for just the elves), you would end up making out better just buying more normal spearmen. Of course they will look different.

So the 2 vs. 3 is a bit of a judgement call. If you love you some swordmasters, i'd say sure go for it, but if you're gravitating more towards white lions or phoenix guard, you may want to invest your money elsewhere.



If you find a skaven player, he'll want as many IoB sets as he can buy. LOL.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 13:36:20


 daedalus wrote:

I mean, it's Dakka. I thought snide arguments from emotion were what we did here.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Awesome man. That's exactly the response I'm looking for. Perfect.

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Remember that you can also order frames of basic Sea Guard models. $15 for 5 of the rank and file.

The IoB box is the only way to get Sea Guard Command, the new style Ellyrion Reavers and Swordmasters, and the characters.
   
 
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